US Government Wants 500,000 Owls To Be Shot Dead in Cull (bird, look)
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I agree we should be the best stewards we can be. We only differ on that that means. Like it or not, species and their range HAS ALWAYS CHANGED over time. That too, is natural process.
And we should allow that process to continue, when it is not happening due to human actions. The problem we are starting to face is determining what ISN'T caused by humans as we continue to expand our footprint in ever more ways.
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Whether the Spotted Owl is failing to thrive because of man or not, the conditions causing it aren't likely to change. It's reality time. Species need to be able to adapt to reality. It's fantasy to shoot a bunch of Barred Owls every year in perpetuity and call that better "nature". That's the worst kind of human meddling, imho.
Spotted owls and other threatened species do not exist in a vacuum. The changes affecting spotted owls cause ripple effects on other species, which causes ripple effects on more species, which...in other words, affect numerous species and possibly entire ecosystems in unpredictable ways. You may be OK with that, but I'm not.
Then logically you would also have to call every ecological effect, range change and extinction that result of climate change natural too. That is stretching the definition IMO. These things happen in response to unnatural, anthropogenic disturbances. Unless you want to argue that anything humans do is also natural, which is a similar stretch.
Even with a changing climate (regardless of the reasons), the Barred owls are still just doing something they would naturally do. There are going to be many thousands of species migrating because of climate change. Do we try to stop every one of them from moving elsewhere? If we do that, we may be endangering the ones we try to stop moving, because the range they currently live in will no longer be hospitable to them, so they will need to move north.
Odds are the Spotted owls will eventually move north as well. Imagine them colonizing southeast Alaska, for example.
And we should allow that process to continue, when it is not happening due to human actions. The problem we are starting to face is determining what ISN'T caused by humans as we continue to expand our footprint in ever more ways.
Spotted owls and other threatened species do not exist in a vacuum. The changes affecting spotted owls cause ripple effects on other species, which causes ripple effects on more species, which...in other words, affect numerous species and possibly entire ecosystems in unpredictable ways. You may be OK with that, but I'm not.
Well, I guess we'll see how this works. Put me down as skeptical.
I will mourn the Barred Owls I've become fond of a lot more than the Spotted Owl I've never seen or heard.
Don't let the government do any such thing. They allowed the almost complete extermination of the American Bison in order to starve the Native Americans into submission. They have meddled in far too many other issues of life, and death. They don't have a clue what they are doing, and are mindless fools.
And just watch the number of vermin that these owls keep in check explode.
Spotted owls and other threatened species do not exist in a vacuum. The changes affecting spotted owls cause ripple effects on other species, which causes ripple effects on more species, which...in other words, affect numerous species and possibly entire ecosystems in unpredictable ways. You may be OK with that, but I'm not.
IMHO this is the more important aspect of protecting many endangered species...they often serve as coal mine canaries for at risk ecosystems. They just happened to get the attention of managers, the media, or the general public before something else just as deserving did. Usually because they're furry, fluffy, or cute. If the Larch Mountain salamander happened to meet T&E listing criteria before the spotted owl, I bet the public outcry over protecting its habitat would have been a lot quieter.
Last edited by Parnassia; 12-18-2023 at 05:08 PM..
Barred owls are probably displacing other owls in the Northwest too, but those would get little notice because they are not endangered. Now if they start moving into high montane forests they could threaten pygmy owls, but they seem unlikely to do that.
I disapprove fully in killing barred owls just because they are surviving and adapting better than the northern spotted owl. The number one reason northern spotted owls are having trouble surviving is habitat loss. They need old growth trees and unfortunately man has chopped 97% down in the Pacific Northwest. Also, wildfires which are only worsening each year.
Purposefully killing one species in hope that another species may have a come back is wrong.
U.S. Fish and Wildlife is taking public comment right now until January 2024. I will post the link later.
I disapprove fully in killing barred owls just because they are surviving and adapting better than the northern spotted owl. The number one reason northern spotted owls are having trouble surviving is habitat loss. They need old growth trees and unfortunately man has chopped 97% down in the Pacific Northwest. Also, wildfires which are only worsening each year.
Purposefully killing one species in hope that another species may have a come back is wrong.
How is it any more wrong than purposefully allowing one common species to wipe out an endangered species? It's sad that we are at this juncture, but I just don't see how one is worse than the other.
How is it any more wrong than purposefully allowing one common species to wipe out an endangered species? It's sad that we are at this juncture, but I just don't see how one is worse than the other.
Because humans are trying to play "god", and interferring when they don't know what will happen. They have done it over, and over again countless times, and never learn to stay out of it. Humans in general are terrible multidimensional chess players, but still think they are wonderfully smart. They have proven that they are NOT. They will however upend the whole apple cart.
How is it any more wrong than purposefully allowing one common species to wipe out an endangered species? It's sad that we are at this juncture, but I just don't see how one is worse than the other.
Have you read any book by Charles Darwin where he talks about survival of the fittest or adaptation? That's what's happening here with barred owls thriving and unfortunately Northern spotted owls not as successful.
I'm against purposefully killing animals.
And the barred owls aren't wiping out another species, that would imply your placing all the blame on barred owls and ignoring other reasons negatively affecting northern spotted owls like habitat loss and wildfires.
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