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QUESTION: Just a curious question that occurred to me. I've read on C-D over the course of time (as well as being portrayed on the web and in the media at-large) about how poor and low-income individuals and families that can't viably afford the extremely-high cost of living in New York City proper, and in the NYC metro area at-large for that matter, have moved out of the NYC metro area altogether and, often enough, moved out of New York State altogether to other states (e.g, Pennsylvania, varied southern or southwestern or midwestern states of the U.S., et al). Can it just be assumed by those who collect public assistance while living in New York City and then take it upon themselves to move out of NYC for another state get to collect public assistance there as well? And do they pre-arrange this public assistance before they even move to the new out-of-state locale? Or do they just take their chances that, after they move outside of New York State, they will hopefully be able to arrange public assistance there to support themselves with? (Of course, it is recognized that there are those individuals or families who move into relatives' or friends' households which are situated outside New York State.)
That is, do the New York City-based poor and low-income (sometimes having been referred to as "the underclass", whether we as individuals agree with that term or not) who basically live off of public assistance (i.e., Section 8, welfare, Aid-to-Dependent Children or ADC, public housing, et al) and are driven out of New York City and the New York City region altogether by the stratospheric cost-of-living to move to another state (e.g., Pennsylvania, the southern states of the U.S., et al) assuredly get to collect the same type of benefits in those other states? In other words, my thinking is that such benefits are STATE-dependent (as to what, if anything, is available as public assistance versus what is not available from any particular U.S. state) and various other states they move to (e.g., the varied southern, southwestern, and midwestern states of the U.S.) may not have the same level of public assistance available (or perhaps hardly any public assistance at all) and/or their criteria for acceptance may be that much more stringent than New York State. So, for instance, I've read in the C-D NYC Forum about low-income or no-income persons or families who move from NYC to the Poconos region or the Lehigh Vally region of Pennsylvania or to the Carolinas or Georgia or Alabama and so on and I wonder if they can expect to just continue being supported on public funds like they have been in New York State. Can they?
This is all being asked here on my part as a purely intellectual question (just for my personal understanding). I am NOT here to instigate an ideological / political war of words nor to engage in nor encourage racial or ethnic demeaningness. I'm just curious as to what allows said poor or low-income individuals or families to just move to another state and just pick up where they left off (in terms of the flow of public support income to them being available to continue living as they do).
Note that this is talking only about those who live on STATE-provided public assistance income, not on FEDERAL income (such as Social Security Disability, et al) . . . for certainly Federal income will persist regardless of which state they are situated in. And, as stated earlier, it is recognized by myself that there are those individuals or families who actually move into relatives' or friends' households which are situated outside New York State (so this explains to a degree how they can just pick up and make such a move and, in the process, sever the flow of New York State-provided public assistance income to themselves) or perhaps some of them arrange for some kind of legitimate work at their new home location to support themselves. For that matter, it is possible that there will be some criminally-minded individuals amongst them who intend to support themselves by engaging (to whatever degree) in illicit activities (e.g., drug dealing, fencing of stolen goods, engaging in burglaries and/or robberies, prostitution, et al) . . . perhaps, with some of them, as a continuation of what they engaged in, to whatever degree, while living in New York State.
Lacking any response from anyone thus far to inform me on this issue, I did my own research on the web and seemingly cleared up some misunderstandings of mine, as such:
Section 8 housing is actually a FEDERAL program managed by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). So it is a FEDERAL (not a STATE) housing assistance program and hence can be applicable in all U.S. states.
Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) was the former name for what is now called Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (a more restrictive program implemented as a replacement for AFDC in 1996 that limits lifetime benefits to a maximum of five years) and is a FEDERAL assistance program (not a STATE program . . . which actually translates to meaning that it is administered by the states but on behalf of the federal government and with federal funding) . . . and hence it can be applicable in all U.S. states. It was originally set up by the Social Security Act and is administered by the United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
Of course, it was already known by myself that those who collect Social Security Disability (SSD) payments for their basic support are, like the above, also on a FEDERAL program (not a STATE program) and hence is applicable in all U.S. states.
So, I suppose all these details mentioned above means that poor or low-income individuals or families who are compelled to leave the NYC metro region altogether because of the extremely high cost-of-living in the NYC metro region and that even take it upon themselves to leave New York State altogether for other parts of the U.S. (or even other parts of New York State outside the NYC Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area or CMSA) can be reasonably assured of having the same support benefits provided to them at their new location by virtue of the programs that support them being federal-based programs rather than state-dependent programs. Still, I wonder if they do, in fact, encounter restrictions in other U.S. states outside New York State (or even within New York State proper but outside New York City proper). For instance, in Wikipedia, it says that the Temporary Aid to Needy Families (TANF) program (which replaced the former Aid to Families with Dependent Children or AFDC) requires its recipients to actively seek employment while receiving aid and they could only receive aid for a limited amount of time – and hence any number of them may have already reached their allowed limits. Yet, as well, it said that “. . . states can choose the amount of resources they will devote to the program”, so it makes me wonder if other states outside New York State offer present or potential public assistance recipients that much less in benefits or even disqualify whatever number of them from collecting such benefits in their new living location.
And, once again (as stated in my original posting which started this thread), it is recognized by myself that, whether or not whatever poor or low-income individuals or families that have collected such public assistance for their basic support can still collect such assistance anymore in their new living location outside NYC proper or outside New York State altogether, there are those individuals or families among them who actually wind up moving into relatives' or friends' households which are situated outside New York State (so this explains to a degree how they can just pick up and make such a move . . . even if their public assistance benefits will now be more restrictive or have been, for that matter, now ended). And then I’m sure that there are those among them who have arranged or plan to arrange for some kind of legitimate work at their new home location to support themselves. And finally, I gather that, unfortunately, there are those among them who had engaged in illicit activities while living in New York City and who intend to support themselves in their new living location by continuing to engage (to whatever degree) in whatever illicit activities (e.g., drug dealing, fencing of stolen goods, engaging in burglaries and/or robberies, prostitution, et al).
Yes they can get public assistance elsewhere, but first they MUST close their cases in NYC. Via their social security number it is instantly traceable if they have public assistance cases anywhere else.
Yes they can get public assistance elsewhere, but first they MUST close their cases in NYC. Via their social security number it is instantly traceable if they have public assistance cases anywhere else.
Well then, with them feeling compelled to move out of New York City proper and often even out of the NYC CMSA altogether and even, in some cases, to other U.S. states outside NY State, at least they are likely not throwing themselves into dire straits at their new living location and can sustain themselves there (and, as well, hopefully being able to eventually find a way to move off of public assistance altogether) . . . and then the measurably-lower cost-of-living at their new living location makes their funds and any work income they earn go further, so that certainly helps.
Some of the benefits are geared top the cost of living in the pertinent area. Thus someone may have an income or resources low enough to collect benefits in New York , but not necessarily in Bumfucque, Kentucky.
Well then, with them feeling compelled to move out of New York City proper and often even out of the NYC CMSA altogether and even, in some cases, to other U.S. states outside NY State, at least they are likely not throwing themselves into dire straits at their new living location and can sustain themselves there (and, as well, hopefully being able to eventually find a way to move off of public assistance altogether) . . . and then the measurably-lower cost-of-living at their new living location makes their funds and any work income they earn go further, so that certainly helps.
As Kefir said many benefits are adjusted to the local cost of living. So they might get less cash benefits in their new location. Simply moving does not resolve the reasons why they were poor in NYC, so things will likely be just as bad in their new locations unless they reinvent themselves like get a good education, learn how to drive, etc. Many poor in NYC don't know how to drive and in the nation as a whole (including the state as a whole) you do need to drive. You won't even get a job in most places without a driver's license as an adult without a driver's license is a serious red flag.
Some of the benefits are geared top the cost of living in the pertinent area. Thus someone may have an income or resources low enough to collect benefits in New York , but not necessarily in Bumfucque, Kentucky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
As Kefir said many benefits are adjusted to the local cost of living. So they might get less cash benefits in their new location. Simply moving does not resolve the reasons why they were poor in NYC, so things will likely be just as bad in their new locations unless they reinvent themselves like get a good education, learn how to drive, etc. Many poor in NYC don't know how to drive and in the nation as a whole (including the state as a whole) you do need to drive. You won't even get a job in most places without a driver's license as an adult without a driver's license is a serious red flag.
Good insights from both of you (which is what I sought in starting this thread). This is perhaps why so many from elsewhere choose to come to NYC and why those that are natives of NYC try to stay in NYC: because NYC's extremely-high cost-of-living creates the conditions for the governing powers to deem it appropriate to be more generous in what kind of benefits they provide and what level of benefits. Whereas in Doohickey, Alabama or JeepersCreepers, Idaho or even in Springfield, Illinois, they may not get nearly as generous benefits (if any at all) based on their measurably-lower cost-of-living.
Some of the benefits are geared top the cost of living in the pertinent area. Thus someone may have an income or resources low enough to collect benefits in New York , but not necessarily in Bumfucque, Kentucky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsAll
Good insights from both of you (which is what I sought in starting this thread). This is perhaps why so many from elsewhere choose to come to NYC and why those that are natives of NYC try to stay in NYC: because NYC's extremely-high cost-of-living creates the conditions for the governing powers to deem it appropriate to be more generous in what kind of benefits they provide and what level of benefits. Whereas in Doohickey, Alabama or JeepersCreepers, Idaho or even in Springfield, Illinois, they may not get nearly as generous benefits (if any at all) based on their measurably-lower cost-of-living.
Hey, Kefir, wouldn't it be funny if we actually found out that there are, in facts, geographic locales with the actual names of Bumfucque, Kentucky; Doohickey, Alabama; and JeepersCreepers, Idaho???!!!??!!??? And here, all along, we were both operating under the assumption that these are all place names that we both made up in our own minds . . . and yet we would find, to our amazement, that these are ALLactual existent places in those respective U.S. states!!! Ha ha ha!!
What other weird places can we come up with from the recesses of our imaginations?
I'm originally PA and some REAL towns in Pennsylvania: Blue Ball, Bird-in-Hand, Corner Store, Drab, Big Beaver, Intercourse, Torpedo, Possum Hollow
I thought I remember there being a Blue Bell in Pennsylvania (notice the leter "e") and that is what I thought you meant to type. But, looking it up in Google, there is, as you said, a Blue Ball as well (notice the letter "a").
There is also a California, Pennsylvania, an Indiana, Pennsylvania, and a Slippery Rock, Pennsylvania. All small college towns having a univeristy in each of them named the exact name as the town itself.
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