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Old 09-08-2016, 09:42 AM
 
811 posts, read 2,339,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valpofan11 View Post
It was a very bland article that my 19 year old self could've written in middle school or high school. In regards to School Town of Highland, the district was only 16.3% free and reduced lunch in 2005-06, and in 2015-16, the district was 35.0% free and reduced lunch. So you can make judgements from that.

IDOE: Compass
Yeah, I hear ya. But, the free/reduced numbers can be manipulated, and are by some schools. Not naming names, but there are some schools and PTOs that encourage parents to represent they qualify for free/reduced lunch when registering the student. The higher that percentage, the more funding the school district gets from the state. Free/reduced lunch isn't a bad snapshot of the financial condition of the community the district serves, but it should certainly be taken with a grain of salt. That's why I specifically said I'd be interested in seeing average income shifts over the same time period.
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:00 AM
 
119 posts, read 155,255 times
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https://www.city-data.com/zips/46322.html#mapOSM[zl]=11&mapOSM[c1]=41.43611&mapOSM[c2]=-87.372735&mapOSM[s]=income5&mapOSM[fs]=false


% change from 2000-2013 for median household income, unfortunately a lot of null data and also correlation of where new housing was built from 2000-2013 by seeing near 100% growth of income levels in certain areas.


Free/Reduced lunch isn't hard to qualify for either when the limit for a family of four in IN is under 45k and the median income in Lake Co. is under 49k.
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:17 AM
 
2,157 posts, read 5,496,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svillechris View Post
I read that article too and felt like I was left hanging. So there are more Hispanics and blacks in schools that have historically been predominantly white schools. Ok... so, what? That's happening nearly everywhere in the country. The stats are there, the data is there... what's the takeaway? Has that migration been generally good for the town/schools? Bad? No result? Any change in test scores? Graduation rates? Additional funding to schools as a result? If nothing can be concluded from it, then what's the point of the article? To tell people what we already know and have experienced?

Also, we spend so much time as a society trying to really believe and explain that everyone is the same, should be treated the same, etc. Some may even protest and fight to ensure that we're all the same. Ok, fine. So then why do we all continue to divide up the people into their race or ethnicity? Isn't that what we all say we SHOULDN'T be doing? Makes no sense. I would have been much more interested in average income shifts in the last 5 years instead of race or ethnicity shifts. You know... the stuff that has actual correlation to crime, drugs, kids being good students, etc.
While I do agree with you, we also have to understand that this is NWI that we are talking about overall...The increase in minorities in school districts has been noted by some folks as the sole reason of the increase in free-reduced lunch and decrease in test scores in some districts. I haven't checked every district but it is interesting to note that the School Town of Munster is one of the most diverse AND high income AND low reduced/free lunch AND high scoring districts in Indiana. It has defying the notion that an increase in diversity = everything goes downhill. And while some folks may disagree with me, I think it comes down to the different beliefs in class standing vs. race. For example, most upper middle class White folks do not feel threatened when a minority moves into their expensive neighborhood because the thought is usually "if they can afford to live here, they must not be into bad stuff".

When you look at Munster, Dyer, Schererville, and Saint John for example, most of the Black population in those towns live in the wealthiest neighborhoods in those towns. While the minority population has increased in all those towns (albeit each at different rates), these have been relatively gradual increases with faster growth this decade. This can be seen in school data numbers.

Now in an area like Merrillville, it was predominantly White for a very long time and was much less diverse initially (as far as non-White population goes) than places like Schererville and Dyer during the same time period) but most of the population was Blue Collar and some middle class. Very very few upper middle class. Then in the 90s like a light switch, the White population started dramatically increasing at the same time the Black population started dramatically increasing. At first it was middle class Black families moving in but as prices in Merrillville became depressed and families continued to move out, cheaper housing overall allowed lower-income folks more accessibility into types of homes that would have been more out of reach in other areas. THIS mattered to the population of Merrillville which contributed to the flight from there to places like Crown Point and Valpo. And also when you look at data, between 2000 and now, Merrillville saw no meaningful increase in household income and when adjusted for inflation, actually saw a decrease in income. It was the only suburban area in NWI to experience this. This is a complicated phenomenon to explain overall but for many folks still in Merrillville or whom fled Merrillville, the reason is pointed out to be based on race and race alone. You and I may not think that, but we are definitely in the minority.

Highland has had demographic changes but by far it has been mostly in the Hispanic population. In the future, I see the racial breakdown probably being in between the 46323 (South Hammond) demographics and 46405 (Lake Station) demographics. In this country, the Black population is suburbanizing (especially in the southern states), but it is not really growing whereas the Hispanic population is doing both suburbanizing and growing. This is why up here, major cities has seen huge losses in the Black population but suburbs have seen growth. I really don't think that Munster, Highland, or Tri-town would have any huge growth in Black population despite being close to some south suburbs because quite frankly, while these areas of NWI have lower taxes and better schools, they are still more expensive and you would get the same type of home. Most Black middle-class families that have means see moving further out for nicer housing that is more affordable with still acceptable schools (Merrillville) as a viable option that many Whites do not see.

I know a family that moved from Chicago to Merrillville because they wanted to 1) leave Illinois and 2) move to a suburb with good schools and new housing. They said they looked at Munster, but they were coming from an older home in the Chatham neighborhood and the idea of paying $275,000 (their budget) for an old outdated home was disheartening and although Munster is a safe area, they had felt it was still too close to Chicago. They wanted their dream home and for this family, they found everything they wanted in a new subdivision in south Merrillville. And compared to Chicago Public Schools, Merrillville was A1. They also were not too familiar with the migration patterns and racial history of NWI (as most Chicago transplants aren't) so it was a non-issue for them. Some folks might say that they did not do their research and other folks would say they researched enough and what they found did not spook them. One of their adult children (whom was in grad school when they made the move) in in the housing market. They are looking in either Merrillville, Crown Point, or Winfield. And while Crown Point schools statistically is much higher performing than Merrillville, both school districts are acceptable to this individual (and to their parents). However we know this is not the case for many of us NWI natives.

At the end of the day, race shouldn't matter but the real-world implications of demographic shifts and home buying patterns continues to prove that it does matter to the vast majority of folks out there.
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:53 AM
 
255 posts, read 415,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
While I do agree with you, we also have to understand that this is NWI that we are talking about overall...The increase in minorities in school districts has been noted by some folks as the sole reason of the increase in free-reduced lunch and decrease in test scores in some districts. I haven't checked every district but it is interesting to note that the School Town of Munster is one of the most diverse AND high income AND low reduced/free lunch AND high scoring districts in Indiana. It has defying the notion that an increase in diversity = everything goes downhill. And while some folks may disagree with me, I think it comes down to the different beliefs in class standing vs. race. For example, most upper middle class White folks do not feel threatened when a minority moves into their expensive neighborhood because the thought is usually "if they can afford to live here, they must not be into bad stuff".

When you look at Munster, Dyer, Schererville, and Saint John for example, most of the Black population in those towns live in the wealthiest neighborhoods in those towns. While the minority population has increased in all those towns (albeit each at different rates), these have been relatively gradual increases with faster growth this decade. This can be seen in school data numbers.

Now in an area like Merrillville, it was predominantly White for a very long time and was much less diverse initially (as far as non-White population goes) than places like Schererville and Dyer during the same time period) but most of the population was Blue Collar and some middle class. Very very few upper middle class. Then in the 90s like a light switch, the White population started dramatically increasing at the same time the Black population started dramatically increasing. At first it was middle class Black families moving in but as prices in Merrillville became depressed and families continued to move out, cheaper housing overall allowed lower-income folks more accessibility into types of homes that would have been more out of reach in other areas. THIS mattered to the population of Merrillville which contributed to the flight from there to places like Crown Point and Valpo. And also when you look at data, between 2000 and now, Merrillville saw no meaningful increase in household income and when adjusted for inflation, actually saw a decrease in income. It was the only suburban area in NWI to experience this. This is a complicated phenomenon to explain overall but for many folks still in Merrillville or whom fled Merrillville, the reason is pointed out to be based on race and race alone. You and I may not think that, but we are definitely in the minority.

Highland has had demographic changes but by far it has been mostly in the Hispanic population. In the future, I see the racial breakdown probably being in between the 46323 (South Hammond) demographics and 46405 (Lake Station) demographics. In this country, the Black population is suburbanizing (especially in the southern states), but it is not really growing whereas the Hispanic population is doing both suburbanizing and growing. This is why up here, major cities has seen huge losses in the Black population but suburbs have seen growth. I really don't think that Munster, Highland, or Tri-town would have any huge growth in Black population despite being close to some south suburbs because quite frankly, while these areas of NWI have lower taxes and better schools, they are still more expensive and you would get the same type of home. Most Black middle-class families that have means see moving further out for nicer housing that is more affordable with still acceptable schools (Merrillville) as a viable option that many Whites do not see.

I know a family that moved from Chicago to Merrillville because they wanted to 1) leave Illinois and 2) move to a suburb with good schools and new housing. They said they looked at Munster, but they were coming from an older home in the Chatham neighborhood and the idea of paying $275,000 (their budget) for an old outdated home was disheartening and although Munster is a safe area, they had felt it was still too close to Chicago. They wanted their dream home and for this family, they found everything they wanted in a new subdivision in south Merrillville. And compared to Chicago Public Schools, Merrillville was A1. They also were not too familiar with the migration patterns and racial history of NWI (as most Chicago transplants aren't) so it was a non-issue for them. Some folks might say that they did not do their research and other folks would say they researched enough and what they found did not spook them. One of their adult children (whom was in grad school when they made the move) in in the housing market. They are looking in either Merrillville, Crown Point, or Winfield. And while Crown Point schools statistically is much higher performing than Merrillville, both school districts are acceptable to this individual (and to their parents). However we know this is not the case for many of us NWI natives.

At the end of the day, race shouldn't matter but the real-world implications of demographic shifts and home buying patterns continues to prove that it does matter to the vast majority of folks out there.
Ultimately, folks will usually move to where they're most comfortable, where friends/family members already are, and/or what they can afford. Hessville and South Hammond (Gavit) residents who are Hispanic, might make that move to Highland if they have friends or family already there. Same thing with Gary to Merrillville (for blacks) and Gary to Merrillville to CP/Winfield or Valpo (for mostly whites). As blacks continue to move south and east, more and more will move into newer neighborhoods in CP/Winfield or Portage.

I think Portage has lots of similarities to Highland, but Portage has more newer housing options and newer affordable/low income apartments. This is helping to bring lots of newcomers to Portage that are black or Hispanic from various areas. Highland will not shift demographically as fast as Portage in the coming years, but I could be wrong.
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,686 posts, read 7,875,702 times
Reputation: 1196
Default Income is not the only factor

Race and more importantly culture impact how individuals behave and perform in school.

Income is a major factor but it is not the only factor.

I would argue that as incomes rise, cultures become more similar between the races.

Black and white families making 50k seem to share less cultural similarities than black and white families making 200k.

There is also huge gap in education between blacks and whites at the same income level.

Does this gap narrow as incomes rise? I believe it does but have not seen any quantifiable data.

I think the family moving from Chatham to relatively cheap home in Merillville did not make the best investment home-equity wise but if they are happy that is the most important.

I do agree that increase in affluence is one of the biggest factors in higher performing school districts but we cannot ignore race and culture in this equation.
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:30 AM
 
6 posts, read 8,179 times
Reputation: 20
Fully agree
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