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It also doesn't hurt that Munster has a great school system. I can't compare it to Chicago's suburbs, but it's certainly on par with some of the upscale Hamilton Country suburbs outside of Indianapolis.
Schools are good to great. Housing prices and more importantly taxes are much lower than in Illinois Chicago suburbs.
Westchester and Munster residents have comparable median household income. However, Munster schools are much better and taxes are much lower. Proviso West is one of the worst Chicago suburb high schools.
The only thing Westchester has over Munster is proximity to loop and suburban job centers (Naperville, Schaumburg,e Elk Grove Village, Burr Ridge).
Brookfield is pretty comparable though it does not have much newer housing stock. Schools are pretty good and it is closer to Loop and suburban job centers than Munster. Taxes are higher though.
I'm not sure what your litmus test is for cost savings but I felt the value proposition for Munster in NWI was pretty strong. This conclusion was only made after actually cross-shopping numerous IL bubs against Munster. Based on the homes we were looking at in IL burbs (like Elmhurst, Wilmette, Evanston, among others) we determined it would be at least a $200K additional swing to get something acceptable living-wise in IL. These "acceptable homes" would also be smaller and much older than what we could get for $200K less in Munster. These homes would be also much harder to update (hello asbestos) and could likely have structural/major system issues sooner.
So, that's $200K off the bat. Plus finance that extra amount (I don't have an extra $200K laying around) and that was an additional $140K over the term of a typical 30-year loan. Next, look at the tax differential. So assuming 2% tax in IL (which will likely increase) vs. something more like 1.4% in Munster and on that $200,000 in extra assessed value that is something like around $8K annually, so over the course of 30 years that is around another $230K. Basically it ended up being well over a half-million.
I know this is not a perfect analysis, I can only tell you that when we looked at it, it seemed compelling enough for us.
I agree, what makes Chicago special is lost by in large in the burbs so that whole QoL in IL bubs vs NWI argument is just somewhat diluted for me. I really don't care that a Nordstrom Dept store isn't down the street. I can buy a bunch of stuff from Nordstrom online, try it on and then send the rest of the stuff back for free. Brick-n-mortar retail is being disrupted by online. For others, this may be a deal breaker. To each his own. I just think you can't say there isn't a value proposition in NWI and the potential for some additional upside in NWI as IL taxes continue to increase. That being said, I am rooting for Chicago to turn it around!
I probably phrased this poorly, but my point was that if someone is looking at Munster as an alternative to similar IL suburbs, they can probably afford IL anyway. I'm not an expert on the area, but from what I've seen, most of the well-paying jobs are on the IL side, either in Chicago or its suburbs. IN seems to win on one thing - cost savings.
If they generally cannot afford IL at all and can only afford IN or aren't yoked to the Chicago area, IMO, there are cheaper suburbs to live throughout the country near other major cities that aren't nearly as congested as Chicagoland, warmer, better scenery, etc., that will offer a comparable day to day experience. I know there are suburbs of Nashville and Charlotte where $450k on a home will have around half the property taxes as in Munster, plus TN has no state income tax, and both states generally have lower taxes and fees than Indiana. Hell, for that matter, Carmel has more affordable property tax rates than Munster.
I think it was mentioned previously, but I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison to compare income levels of a town in Indiana vs a town in Illinois and then compare schools and other amenities to determine what the better option is. You have to look at disposable income after achieving comparable lifestyle levels living in NWI vs Illinois. Nobody really wants to make some huge downgrade in their lifestyle, that's not why people are moving from Illinois to NWI.
For example, household income of $100,000 living in Orland Park vs the same income level living in Schererville. You're likely going to have a significant amount more of a disposable income living in Schererville, and many (not all) people think there's not much of a sacrifice in lifestyle between the two. There's a handful of other NWI towns that can be substituted into this example as well. I think this is the mentality a lot of people (and there certainly are a lot of them) have taken when they decided to move from Illinois to NWI. Saving a lot of money, and sacrificing very little to nothing in terms of the things they value in their lifestyle. That's why you don't really see any Hinsdale-to-NWI or Winnetka-to-NWI transplants here. It probably wouldn't be a comparable lifestyle with respect to the things those people likely value the most, so the cost savings aren't worth it to them...and I can't blame them. To each his/her own.
I think it was mentioned previously, but I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison to compare income levels of a town in Indiana vs a town in Illinois and then compare schools and other amenities to determine what the better option is. You have to look at disposable income after achieving comparable lifestyle levels living in NWI vs Illinois. Nobody really wants to make some huge downgrade in their lifestyle, that's not why people are moving from Illinois to NWI.
For example, household income of $100,000 living in Orland Park vs the same income level living in Schererville. You're likely going to have a significant amount more of a disposable income living in Schererville, and many (not all) people think there's not much of a sacrifice in lifestyle between the two. There's a handful of other NWI towns that can be substituted into this example as well. I think this is the mentality a lot of people (and there certainly are a lot of them) have taken when they decided to move from Illinois to NWI. Saving a lot of money, and sacrificing very little to nothing in terms of the things they value in their lifestyle. That's why you don't really see any Hinsdale-to-NWI or Winnetka-to-NWI transplants here. It probably wouldn't be a comparable lifestyle with respect to the things those people likely value the most, so the cost savings aren't worth it to them...and I can't blame them. To each his/her own.
All good points but I'm not sure the relatively small cost savings is a significant factor for those with a household income near or above $200k as a previous poster seemed to imply.
If not for my wife's family living in Naperville area we would consider Munster. The taxes in Illinois are out of control.
We make over 200k (average slightly above 300k between the 2 of us) and are hesitant to invest 750k in a place like Hinsdale. For 500k we can get a really nice home in Munster and taxes are less than half.
Houses on our current block in Oak Park start around 750k with 15-20k tax bill. With no kids yet we will rent until this changes. We don't need 3000 sq ft and can get by just fine on 1200 sq ft apartment. I prefer to invest my surplus in the stock market and am actively pursuing buying farmland in southeast indiana adjacent to land I already own (via family).
Just because we have more disposable income does not mean we are all willing to tie up most of our resources in housing.
If not for my wife's family living in Naperville area we would consider Munster. The taxes in Illinois are out of control.
We make over 200k (average slightly above 300k between the 2 of us) and are hesitant to invest 750k in a place like Hinsdale. For 500k we can get a really nice home in Munster and taxes are less than half.
Houses on our current block in Oak Park start around 750k with 15-20k tax bill. With no kids yet we will rent until this changes. We don't need 3000 sq ft and can get by just fine on 1200 sq ft apartment. I prefer to invest my surplus in the stock market and am actively pursuing buying farmland in southeast indiana adjacent to land I already own (via family).
Just because we have more disposable income does not mean we are all willing to tie up most of our resources in housing.
If you can get by on 1200 SF then there's no need to invest $750k in Hinsdale. You can get by spending $500k with property taxes of $6k in Hinsdale. Not bad eh? Taxes aren't that much cheaper for the typical $500k home in Munster. Sure the home in Munster will be newer but nothing wrong with a well maintained and updated older home in a great school district and central location.
All good points but I'm not sure the relatively small cost savings is a significant factor for those with a household income near or above $200k as a previous poster seemed to imply.
I think this comment was directed at me. Feeling the love
Listen, I haven't forgotten the financial meltdown that happened in 4Q 2008. I witnessed a number of my close friends lose their good paying jobs. My hubs and I specifically didn't want to carry a mortgage higher than either one of us couldn't carry individually if the other one was out of a job. Ever seen the movie "This is 40"? Well, we don't want a big nut.
You have several posters on this board making over $200K telling you that the cost analysis is/was part of the consideration when comparing suburbs to live. I agree with you that making over $200K makes housing costs less of an issue though. The more you make, the more flexibility you have in choosing where you would like to live. Also, I think the specific industry that you work in can make a difference. If you are the medical field, that is more recession proof so maybe you don't need to be as conservative. If you are in F.I.R.E. or sales/consulting then you may wish to play it more conservative and remain more flexible by choosing a more affordable home/community.
Again, the C-D forum is a poor sample size (just like my neighborhood/friends are) so I cannot speak to overall trends (getting back on topic). This is just sharing experiences and factors involved in the migration from IL to NWI.
Hinsdale house is cute but small. Great location, though I would prefer to be closer to main Hinsdale station as it is next to West Hinsdale station, which has fewer trains.
We sacrifice now so that we can have more options later. I am the same guy that lived in the basement of building I still own in Humboldt Park for 4 years. We are able to save around 100k per year. We know this will not be sustainable with family (unless my income gets above 500k). So we save now for later.
Hinsdale house is probably worth 500k, but 11k taxes are nearly what we pay now in rent.
I actually looked at that area in Hinsdale 2-3 years ago at 500-600k foreclosures but ultimately did not pull the trigger because of high property taxes.
I think ultimately we will buy 500k house in Naperville but will only buy once we have kids. We will pool e rest of our money in stock investments and buying farmland in Indiana (very unique as I already own farmland thru family).
I keep waiting for concern about increasing property taxes in Illinois to lead to home price declines but it is more price stagnation. Does anyone on here really think nicer Illinois Chicago suburbs will see future price declines with the increasing taxes or will prices just continue to lag inflation?
Hinsdale home cited is basically going to sell for what it went for 11 years ago.
Hinsdale house is cute but small. Great location, though I would prefer to be closer to main Hinsdale station as it is next to West Hinsdale station, which has fewer trains.
We sacrifice now so that we can have more options later. I am the same guy that lived in the basement of building I still own in Humboldt Park for 4 years. We are able to save around 100k per year. We know this will not be sustainable with family (unless my income gets above 500k). So we save now for later.
Hinsdale house is probably worth 500k, but 11k taxes are nearly what we pay now in rent.
I actually looked at that area in Hinsdale 2-3 years ago at 500-600k foreclosures but ultimately did not pull the trigger because of high property taxes.
I think ultimately we will buy 500k house in Naperville but will only buy once we have kids. We will pool e rest of our money in stock investments and buying farmland in Indiana (very unique as I already own farmland thru family).
I keep waiting for concern about increasing property taxes in Illinois to lead to home price declines but it is more price stagnation. Does anyone on here really think nicer Illinois Chicago suburbs will see future price declines with the increasing taxes or will prices just continue to lag inflation?
Hinsdale home cited is basically going to sell for what it went for 11 years ago.
It's walkable to two train stations and downtown Hinsdale though downtown is about 1 mile or 15-20 minute walk, not bad and certainly something Munster couldn't offer! It's larger than your current rental and a sound investment IMO as the land alone is probably worth close to $400k. You keep saying property taxes are high but I already pointed out that the tax bill on this home is only $6k which is comparable to $500k homes in Munster. The effective property tax rate on homes in Hinsdale isn't that much different than Munster, especially on original homes. I pay $5300 on a home appraised for $450k almost two years ago.
Again, the trade off is home size and newness but do you really need a brand new or relatively new 3000 SF+ McMansion? This question/comment pertains to both Munster and Hinsdale.
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Munster is better than a lot of Chicago suburbs
