The "big O" in Ohio...and "topfree"?

[Gaylenwoof]

Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest

It's liberals and more specifically, women, that have destroyed individual freedom in this state/country. Not moral conservatives.

Wow...I haven't heard much of that kind of talk for the past couple of decades. But, ok. Would you mind offering some specific examples, empirical evidence, or rational arguments to support your claim?

Also, would you mind explaining what you mean by "individual freedom"? I've already given my definition (basically: the right to do what you want so long as it does not interfere with the rights of others).

And/or perhaps you could explain how a woman being topless infringes upon your rights?

[OhioIstheBest]

Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof

Wow...I haven't heard much of that kind of talk for the past couple of decades. But, ok. Would you mind offering some specific examples, empirical evidence, or rational arguments to support your claim?

Also, would you mind explaining what you mean by "individual freedom"? I've already given my definition (basically: the right to do what you want so long as it does not interfere with the rights of others).

And/or perhaps you could explain how a woman being topless infringes upon your rights?

I never said a woman going topless infringes upon my rights.

I could go into some long winded explanation of women and liberals and their communist ways. Here's a link that explains it better than me. And much more eloquently. It pretty much sums up what I believe. Though he doesn't use words like communist and socialist.

[Droolrockworm]

Liberalism by its definition is about individual liberties! Our country was created by liberal thoughts and the Bill of Rights (where individual rights started) is one of the most liberal of all documents. It comes from other documents ie. The Petition of Rights, the Magna Carta, The English Bill of Rights, Vindication of the Rights of man etc. All of those were created to help the disenfranchised and gave suffrage or rights that Conservatives tried to stop or reverse. Freeing the slaves was extremely liberal as was woman's right to vote, the civil rights movement and much of the New Deal. As was previously mentioned that those that call themselves moral conservatives are trying to impose their views or religion on others. I don't think that these same people would push for religious imposition if it was a religion other than their belief system and would scream oppression. On the other hand Conservatives by definition are those that would support the ways things "used to be". Political conservatives push for for "smaller government" which equates to wealth and power being even more powerful in governmental affairs. A land that was run by nobles, monarchs or in America's case the rich. Almost all laws pushed by these groups benifit a very small portion of the population (estate tax, Tax cuts for the wealthiest etc.) They pay lip service to the social conservatives because they tend to be single issue voters (Abortion, Gay marriage) and win because they place issues like this on the ballot. In 2004 there was a gay marriage amendment to outlaw same sex marriage (which was already illegal in Ohio) to get people out to vote for W. I am a proud pro-gun liberal and would like to see the most liberal law of all enacted...Public funded elections so that special interests on both sides stop buying elections and force a return to issues.

[1watertiger]

going topless or nude tanning is legal at state parks. and then genitals must be covered. edgewater and mentor headlands in cleveland have areas on the beach where this occurs. i have never seen a topless woman on the city streets/parks anywhere in ohio. except at gay/lesbian parades.

[Wilson513]

I think conservatives very much support liberal thought insomuch as that means to explore the full spectrum of ideas without restrictions and preconditions. It is actually the American left that is intolerant and restrictive in thought and speech, having long departed the precepts of liberalism in favor of nanny-statism. Every liberal I know wants the federal government to get involved in some new aspect of my life and yours whether it is dictating what type of snacks the school board deems fit for their school system, or whether a farmer can water his crops.

As to whether women going topless is a conservative or liberal issue, that is just silliness. Some "liberal" women will oppose topless because it is exploitive, some conservative will oppose it because it limits others enjoyment of public places by exposing them to things traditionally taboo. Either way, who really cares?

For my part, I like breasts so if its Megan Fox we are talking about, I'm for it. If its Joy Behar, I'm opposed to it.

[strudel42]

Nothing at all is indecent about a woman's breasts. In fact, as a woman I see topless men who have bigger breasts than I have. Everyone knows what boobs look like; what's the problem? If a female wishes to go topless I believe that should be her choice.

As for my experience with the mentality of Ohioans, I would say that most simply don't care what you believe, what you do or how you wish to live your life. I grew up in a smallish town where everyone was him- or herself and few judgments were passed regarding lifestyle, race, religion, whatever. Pretense was, and remains, practically nonexistent. This is why I defined Ohio "conservatives" as being more libertarian than of the moral-conservative mindset.

[robertbrianbush]

Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest

I never said a woman going topless infringes upon my rights.

I could go into some long winded explanation of women and liberals and their communist ways. Here's a link that explains it better than me. And much more eloquently. It pretty much sums up what I believe. Though he doesn't use words like communist and socialist.

You do realize that very, very few American liberals are communists?