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Old 04-23-2020, 03:25 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,462,599 times
Reputation: 7217

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While fears of ventilator shortages subside, hospitals and doctors are being forced to use triage to decide who is hooked up to dialysis (kidney) and ECMO (heart/lung) machines. As COVID-19 ravages body organs, the U.S. faces even more dire equipment shortages than the ventilator shortage and the Trump administration, and DeWine administration, have not even begun to focus on these other equipment shortages. "Fighting the past battle" and a lack of proactive response is a sign of deficient response administration.

<<What is clear, experts say, is that a substantial proportion of critically ill coronavirus patients – those on ventilators in the intensive care unit – require dialysis machines. The number of those needing dialysis range from 20-40% of that severely ill subgroup of positive cases, according to Kliger. >>

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctor...ry?id=70271389

As with testing supply shortages, there also are developing shortages of the fluids needed to perform dialysis. Likely, federal intervention to balance supplies of both dialysis machines and necessary liquids are needed.

<<“We have had trouble getting the fluids needed for dialysis. Machines are needed as well but getting them can be complicated,” said Dr. Jha. “One way that we can address this is by asking those not seeing as much kidney disease and coronavirus to reallocate their supplies to the hot spots....”

“These patients generate the toxins that are removed by dialysis at a phenomenal rate – a rate that will make your eyes pop out,” said Dr. Joel Topf, the medical director of St. Clair Nephrology Research in Detroit, Michigan. “We are finding we need to dialyze these patients every day using high doses of the dialysis to clear off these toxins … and that really adds to the stress on resources.” >>

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctor...ry?id=70271389

As with shortages of respiratory technicians and ventilator equipment mechanics, shortages of staff trained to operate and maintain dialysis machines also are developing.

<<Staffing shortages – nurses and dialysis machine technicians – are also being stretched thin....

“Given the discussions we have been having about using ventilators and crisis standards of care, as well as scare resource allocation, it might be time to start tracking the use of dialysis treatment in critical care and if we have the skilled nurses we need to deliver care to patients with kidney failure,” said Dr. Kelly Michelson, director of the Center for Bioethics and Medical Humanities at Northwestern University. “This can help us get in front of the issue and provide insight to help inform ethics conversations.” >>

ECMO (heart/lung bypass) machines may offer one of the most effective treatment options for severe cases of COVID-19, but these machines and needed staff are much more scarce than ventilators and dialysis machines.

https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2020/...us/5163727002/

<<For approximately every 50 to 100 ventilators, there is just one ECMO machine available>>

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...nt/2991613001/
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Old 04-23-2020, 02:27 PM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,379,439 times
Reputation: 1645
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
While fears of ventilator shortages subside, hospitals and doctors are being forced to use triage to decide who is hooked up to dialysis (kidney) and ECMO (heart/lung) machines. As COVID-19 ravages body organs, the U.S. faces even more dire equipment shortages than the ventilator shortage and the Trump administration, and DeWine administration, have not even begun to focus on these other equipment shortages. "Fighting the past battle" and a lack of proactive response is a sign of deficient response administration.

<<What is clear, experts say, is that a substantial proportion of critically ill coronavirus patients – those on ventilators in the intensive care unit – require dialysis machines. The number of those needing dialysis range from 20-40% of that severely ill subgroup of positive cases, according to Kliger. >>

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctor...ry?id=70271389

As with testing supply shortages, there also are developing shortages of the fluids needed to perform dialysis. Likely, federal intervention to balance supplies of both dialysis machines and necessary liquids are needed.

<<“We have had trouble getting the fluids needed for dialysis. Machines are needed as well but getting them can be complicated,” said Dr. Jha. “One way that we can address this is by asking those not seeing as much kidney disease and coronavirus to reallocate their supplies to the hot spots....”

“These patients generate the toxins that are removed by dialysis at a phenomenal rate – a rate that will make your eyes pop out,” said Dr. Joel Topf, the medical director of St. Clair Nephrology Research in Detroit, Michigan. “We are finding we need to dialyze these patients every day using high doses of the dialysis to clear off these toxins … and that really adds to the stress on resources.” >>

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctor...ry?id=70271389

As with shortages of respiratory technicians and ventilator equipment mechanics, shortages of staff trained to operate and maintain dialysis machines also are developing.

<<Staffing shortages – nurses and dialysis machine technicians – are also being stretched thin....

“Given the discussions we have been having about using ventilators and crisis standards of care, as well as scare resource allocation, it might be time to start tracking the use of dialysis treatment in critical care and if we have the skilled nurses we need to deliver care to patients with kidney failure,” said Dr. Kelly Michelson, director of the Center for Bioethics and Medical Humanities at Northwestern University. “This can help us get in front of the issue and provide insight to help inform ethics conversations.” >>

ECMO (heart/lung bypass) machines may offer one of the most effective treatment options for severe cases of COVID-19, but these machines and needed staff are much more scarce than ventilators and dialysis machines.

https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2020/...us/5163727002/

<<For approximately every 50 to 100 ventilators, there is just one ECMO machine available>>

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...nt/2991613001/
https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/507471

So who is correct? In my opinion this virus has been here since November and December. They were miss diagnosing upper respiratory infections and the flu. This virus did not wait to cross the border until the news announced it in Washington. It was here before that. It’s time to open up the country and let the small business start making a living before they go bankrupt. All the so-called models have been wrong and Way over stated as of today. What are people going to do stay home for a year or two? How ridiculous. And do people realize that most viruses do not have a vaccine? What if they don’t have one for this? Everybody to stay home forever LOL obviously there will be many things in daily life that will change. But you cannot shut down the country, ruin peoples lives and go bankrupt. Because that will lead to riots and worse problems than the virus.
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Old 04-23-2020, 02:51 PM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,379,439 times
Reputation: 1645
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
While fears of ventilator shortages subside, hospitals and doctors are being forced to use triage to decide who is hooked up to dialysis (kidney) and ECMO (heart/lung) machines. As COVID-19 ravages body organs, the U.S. faces even more dire equipment shortages than the ventilator shortage and the Trump administration, and DeWine administration, have not even begun to focus on these other equipment shortages. "Fighting the past battle" and a lack of proactive response is a sign of deficient response administration.

<<What is clear, experts say, is that a substantial proportion of critically ill coronavirus patients – those on ventilators in the intensive care unit – require dialysis machines. The number of those needing dialysis range from 20-40% of that severely ill subgroup of positive cases, according to Kliger. >>

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctor...ry?id=70271389

As with testing supply shortages, there also are developing shortages of the fluids needed to perform dialysis. Likely, federal intervention to balance supplies of both dialysis machines and necessary liquids are needed.

<<“We have had trouble getting the fluids needed for dialysis. Machines are needed as well but getting them can be complicated,” said Dr. Jha. “One way that we can address this is by asking those not seeing as much kidney disease and coronavirus to reallocate their supplies to the hot spots....”

“These patients generate the toxins that are removed by dialysis at a phenomenal rate – a rate that will make your eyes pop out,” said Dr. Joel Topf, the medical director of St. Clair Nephrology Research in Detroit, Michigan. “We are finding we need to dialyze these patients every day using high doses of the dialysis to clear off these toxins … and that really adds to the stress on resources.” >>

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctor...ry?id=70271389

As with shortages of respiratory technicians and ventilator equipment mechanics, shortages of staff trained to operate and maintain dialysis machines also are developing.

<<Staffing shortages – nurses and dialysis machine technicians – are also being stretched thin....

“Given the discussions we have been having about using ventilators and crisis standards of care, as well as scare resource allocation, it might be time to start tracking the use of dialysis treatment in critical care and if we have the skilled nurses we need to deliver care to patients with kidney failure,” said Dr. Kelly Michelson, director of the Center for Bioethics and Medical Humanities at Northwestern University. “This can help us get in front of the issue and provide insight to help inform ethics conversations.” >>

ECMO (heart/lung bypass) machines may offer one of the most effective treatment options for severe cases of COVID-19, but these machines and needed staff are much more scarce than ventilators and dialysis machines.

https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2020/...us/5163727002/

<<For approximately every 50 to 100 ventilators, there is just one ECMO machine available>>

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...nt/2991613001/
The following two references make no reference of kidney damage during the first two official autopsies in the United States done at the Cleveland clinic. In fact one of the patients diagnosed as dying of COVID-19 actually did not. I’m sure thousands of other people have been missed diagnosed. And your article proves a lot of miss information is out there. Stoking more fears. Like I have mentioned before it’s time to get most of America working again.
And IMO it’s Time to stop the daily dog and pony show from the governor and the doctor. He was freaking handing out prizes to reporters with good questions the other day. Really? And the doctor suggest maybe we should carry papers stating we are healthy. Bull**** sounds like communism to me. Papers? Papers please? Why not have everyone carry papers for aids also? More people die each year of that than the coronavirus. Or how about hepatitis papers? Leprosy papers? See how ridiculous this gets? How far down this rabbit hole you want to go?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/consult...autopsies/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...-discover.html
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Old 04-23-2020, 09:41 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,462,599 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/507471

So who is correct? In my opinion this virus has been here since November and December. They were miss diagnosing upper respiratory infections and the flu. This virus did not wait to cross the border until the news announced it in Washington. It was here before that. It’s time to open up the country and let the small business start making a living before they go bankrupt. All the so-called models have been wrong and Way over stated as of today. What are people going to do stay home for a year or two? How ridiculous. And do people realize that most viruses do not have a vaccine? What if they don’t have one for this? Everybody to stay home forever LOL obviously there will be many things in daily life that will change. But you cannot shut down the country, ruin peoples lives and go bankrupt. Because that will lead to riots and worse problems than the virus.
The study you are basing your opinion on is from China, with the study completed on Feb. 13.

There are many reasons that this study may not apply to Americans.

1) The COVID-19 virus continues to mutate, with some strains apparently more deadly than the strain examined in the study you linked. Also, the genome of the COVID-19 virus linked to most New York City cases originated in Europe, not China.

<<The team, led by Hangping Yao, from the First Affiliated Hospital, Zhejiang University School of Medicine, China, sequenced the genomes of 11 strains of the virus from patients who were infected early on in the pandemic. They also assessed the level of virulence—its ability to produce disease—of each strain using laboratory tests.

Findings showed a number of mutations to the virus, including those that could make some strains more deadly. They found disease severity was linked to mutations in certain strains. They found there was "significant variation" between different isolates in terms of how it invades host cells—known as its cytopathic effect (CPE)—and the viral load.

"We provide direct evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 has acquired mutations capable of substantially changing its pathogenicity," they wrote.>>

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/york-c...ry?id=70062642

Unfortunately, Europe and New York City were infected by the most deadly strains of the COVID-19 virus.

<<The South China Morning Post reports the deadliest mutations found in patients in the study had also been found in a significant portion of patients across Europe, while milder strains were predominant in western parts of the U.S., such as Washington state. A separate study found strains in New York had been imported from Europe. The death rate in New York was similar to that in many European countries. >>

https://thehill.com/changing-america...o-more-than-30

2) Americans may be more vulnerable to the COVID-19 than Chinese patients, given high rates of obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.

Do you actually believe that the experts quoted in post 1 by ABC News are lying?????

Last edited by WRnative; 04-23-2020 at 10:12 PM..
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:19 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,462,599 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
The following two references make no reference of kidney damage during the first two official autopsies in the United States done at the Cleveland clinic. In fact one of the patients diagnosed as dying of COVID-19 actually did not. I’m sure thousands of other people have been missed diagnosed. And your article proves a lot of miss information is out there. Stoking more fears. Like I have mentioned before it’s time to get most of America working again.
And IMO it’s Time to stop the daily dog and pony show from the governor and the doctor. He was freaking handing out prizes to reporters with good questions the other day. Really? And the doctor suggest maybe we should carry papers stating we are healthy. Bull**** sounds like communism to me. Papers? Papers please? Why not have everyone carry papers for aids also? More people die each year of that than the coronavirus. Or how about hepatitis papers? Leprosy papers? See how ridiculous this gets? How far down this rabbit hole you want to go?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/consult...autopsies/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...-discover.html
These two autopsies discussed in these links are meaningless. It appears that neither patient was ever hospitalized, and the second patient was determined to have died with COVID-19, not of COVID-19. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONLY TWO CASES.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:40 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,462,599 times
Reputation: 7217
With almost all Americans, I share your concern about the economic devastation being inflicted on Ohio and our nation. Yet the economic issue has nothing to do with the observed impact of this virus on kidneys and other organs. Stop playing a medical expert, and stop belittling actual medical experts, who are reporting first-hand experiences with actual COVID-19 patients.

BTW, the models have been revised to reflect the substantial and effective social distancing policies, not originally reflected in the models. Do you want Ohio to live through a COVID-19 epidemic that overwhelms our hospitals and first responders, as in Italy, New York City, or even Detroit?

Hopefully, with learned social distancing policies, states like Georgia will be able to lift "stay-at-home" orders without escalating the COVID-19 epidemics in those states. I'm glad they're willing to be the guinea pigs, but I much refer that Ohio phases out the "stay-at-home" policies more gradually until it can enact much more robust testing, contract tracing, and effective quarantine policies, an overall policy that worked in South Korea WITHOUT RAVAGING THE ECONOMY. Unfortunately, the Trump administration has done very little to implement the South Korean model, even though we are now three months into this epidemic. We also need greatly increased supplies of personal protection equipment to protect health care workers, first responders, grocery workers, factory workers and indeed all Americans.

See post 19 in this thread.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/ohio...andemic-2.html

The best way to keep Americans safe and reopen the economy is to take the politicians out of the equation, put medical experts, economists, and medical supply and pharmaceutical experts in charge of a concerted effort to implement the Korean model.
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Old 04-23-2020, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
14,690 posts, read 14,672,707 times
Reputation: 15424
It also affects your hematology, escalating clotting factors in your blood and then quickly breaking them down, which has let to a lot of strokes and cases of a deadly disorder called DIC (disseminated intravascular coagulation).


A woman who died at our hospital from it suffered from both after initially only experiencing respiratory issues:
https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/n...lhCCo8sVFWYOP/
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Old 04-24-2020, 11:42 AM
on3
 
498 posts, read 387,358 times
Reputation: 643
People are getting all excited about businesses opening up at the end of the month. Yes, at the risk of increasing spread. Feeling adventurous? Don’t. This gif pretty much summarizes the inverse of how your approach should be. Basically instead of coming indoors and immediately going back outdoors, the correct mindset is to go outdoors, then come right back in.

https://i.imgur.com/zGHQb4O.gif
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Old 04-25-2020, 04:59 AM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,379,439 times
Reputation: 1645

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...WKjaKY7XNSVpAk
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:07 AM
 
Location: cleveland
2,365 posts, read 4,379,439 times
Reputation: 1645
Papers? Papers please!
And Dr. Amy can kiss my ass regarding her comment about carrying papers to identify people who do not have coronavirus. WTF? If the good doctor is going to suggest something communistic like that, What about aids? What about hepatitis? How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw....ath/a-19509598
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