Ohio, better or worse with no true major city? (Columbus: affordable house, homebuyer)

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by jimwen

Yeah! Ohio needs to become a blue state and cities like LA, Frisco, Portland and Seattle. They're thriving as blue cities, aren't they?!?

Given they subsidize the Red States I would suppose so.

https://smartasset.com/data-studies/...overnment-2022

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

The draw is that in addition to what you've mentioned, quite a few people are choosing to live near the center city in areas that are served by bus, streetcar, and light rail. These areas are also walking distance from NBA, NFL, and Major League Soccer games. Another draw is Carowinds Amusement park (aka the Cedar Point of the South) and the Whitewater Center.

As for Ohio, the lack of city dominance is not the issue at all. Florida, Texas, and California are doing just fine for the most part (and so is North Carolina). Furthermore, as a resident of the South; I can tell you that downtown Savannah on any given Saturday trumps midtown Atlanta when it comes to casual foot traffic. The same can be said for downtown Charleston versus Center City Charlotte. My point is that while some of the largest cities might look more dominant due to population, quite a few smaller cities dominate when it comes to tourism (Asheville, Gatlinburg, Myrtle Beach, and many others).

The shift in migration patterns (away from the Midwest) can be attributed to three major events....

✓ the invention of the automobile
✓ the invention of air conditioning
✓ the Civil Rights movement

There were other factors, but none quite as big as fixing the social problems, controlling indoor climate, and mobility.

There is still The Civil War. Much of the South is still fixated on The Civil War. Especially in the Carolinas. They bring it up all the time. They attempt to make it sound like a joke, but trust me, they are not joking. They have a real animosity towards Northerners that has been revived, kindled and stoked by the last president.

Charlotte and other inland areas of NC do not have "mild climates" - unless you think triple digit temps in the summer are mild.

As far as SC, I think Myrtle Beach is a nice place to visit. Murrel's Inlet is pretty and charming. But, if you drive 25 miles inland from MB, with Northern tags on your car, it's a whole different ballgame. That famous "Southern Hospitality" is a myth.

[Losfrisco]

Cleveland is the major city.

Legit subway with airport connection, NBA, NFL, MLB, RNC, 900+ foot skyscraper, Big 5 symphony and so on.

As far as Hopkins losing hub certification, that seems like a pretty minor technicality to say it isn't a major city based on everything else.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by Losfrisco

Cleveland is the major city.

Legit subway with airport connection, NBA, NFL, MLB, RNC, 900+ foot skyscraper, Big 5 symphony and so on.

As far as Hopkins losing hub certification, that seems like a pretty minor technicality to say it isn't a major city based on everything else.

Plus 1 for you! Hopkins IS a major airport. I did not even know that the designation of "hub airport" was lost by Cleveland - Hopkins

I have been able to get direct flights to anyplace I've wanted from Cleveland. No. It's not Atlanta or Orlando. Those are 2 of the most active airports and also two of the most annoying. The overly aggressive TSA at Orlando recently caused me to miss my flight.

At least I don't need to leave NE Ohio, to get a good meal. - or visit a work class museum.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by cbusflyer

I know this will spark some heated debate but here it goes. Ohio is an oddball state. I have been trying to find another state that has the population and history comparable to Ohio that has no major city in modern times. North Carolina was the only state that I could come up with, that is slightly similar to Ohio. All other top 10 states based on population, have a major dominating city.

Obviously we can't change history but do you think not having a dominant city has hurt Ohio in the long run vs three comparable medium size cities? Ohio has no true airline hubs anymore vs the other top ten states. Other top ten states have a city that draws tourists beyond what Ohio can draw. I don't know if there is a right answer but Ohio seems stuck in a weird place that it is a top 10 state but nothing about it stands out to the outside world.

Ohio has a major dominating city-it's called "Cleveland."


"3 C's" is misleading because it implies there is an even peer relationship between Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati (there isn't).

Cincy started big very early but had largely flamed out on the grand American post-1920's stage ("we had the plans for a SUBWAY"). An iconic American city to be sure but didn't really play in the same league as Cleveland in the 20th century.

Cleveland was a top 10 by population city for nearly 100 straight years and has amenities today that no other city in Ohio will even come close to getting.

So saying that Charlotte, Detroit, or even Philadelphia is a major city but Cleveland isn't is just wrong.

[Jbraybarten653]

Originally Posted by Losfrisco

Ohio has a major dominating city-it's called "Cleveland."


"3 C's" is misleading because it implies there is an even peer relationship between Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati (there isn't).

Cincy started big very early but had largely flamed out on the grand American post-1920's stage ("we had the plans for a SUBWAY"). An iconic American city to be sure but didn't really play in the same league as Cleveland in the 20th century.

Cleveland was a top 10 by population city for nearly 100 straight years and has amenities today that no other city in Ohio will even come close to getting.

So saying that Charlotte, Detroit, or even Philadelphia is a major city but Cleveland isn't is just wrong.

Cincy was one of the largest 19th century American cities... at least pre industrial revolution which catapulted Cleveland and several others massively.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by Jbraybarten653

Cincy was one of the largest 19th century American cities... at least pre industrial revolution which catapulted Cleveland and several others massively.

That's pretty much what I wrote.

[bjimmy24]

It's hard to overstate the wealth of Cleveland in the 20th century, especially first half. Neither Cincinnati in the 19th century nor Columbus in the 21st century comes anywhere close.

[cbusflyer]

Originally Posted by Losfrisco

Ohio has a major dominating city-it's called "Cleveland."


"3 C's" is misleading because it implies there is an even peer relationship between Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati (there isn't).

Cincy started big very early but had largely flamed out on the grand American post-1920's stage ("we had the plans for a SUBWAY"). An iconic American city to be sure but didn't really play in the same league as Cleveland in the 20th century.

Cleveland was a top 10 by population city for nearly 100 straight years and has amenities today that no other city in Ohio will even come close to getting.

So saying that Charlotte, Detroit, or even Philadelphia is a major city but Cleveland isn't is just wrong.

While I agree Cleveland is still the leading city in Ohio by most factors, I think it has lost ground on so many fronts to the other two C's that in my opinion it is really in the same league. Sports teams, transportation, it is still the leader but as a native Ohioian from NE Ohio, Cleveland has lost it's influence for me since I was a kid. Cincinnati and Cbus have gained much ground on Cleveland in many areas and will continue to do so.

Cleveland MSA #33 2022 estimate-2,160,146
Columbus MSA #32 2022 estimate -2,161,511
Cincinnati MSA #30 2022 estimate -2,258,099

GDP Cleveland MSA #34 2021(millions) 147,637
GDP Columbus MSA #32 2021(millions) 154,509
GDP Cincinnati MSA #27 2021(millions) 171,737

Stats from a quick Wikipedia search. Take them for what you will.

Now we can argue Cleveland CSA vs the others two and there we will find Cleveland has the dominant advantage in population. But where has this population advantage done anything to make Cleveland a true dominant city.

Cleveland can't get out of it's own way and build a regional partnership with its surrounding communities.
I have stated time and time again Cleveland is ahead of the other two C's but it is not a dominant city within the state in the 21st century.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by cbusflyer

While I agree Cleveland is still the leading city in Ohio by most factors, I think it has lost ground on so many fronts to the other two C's that in my opinion it is really in the same league. Sports teams, transportation, it is still the leader but as a native Ohioian from NE Ohio, Cleveland has lost it's influence for me since I was a kid. Cincinnati and Cbus have gained much ground on Cleveland in many areas and will continue to do so.

Cleveland MSA #33 2022 estimate-2,160,146
Columbus MSA #32 2022 estimate -2,161,511
Cincinnati MSA #30 2022 estimate -2,258,099

GDP Cleveland MSA #34 2021(millions) 147,637
GDP Columbus MSA #32 2021(millions) 154,509
GDP Cincinnati MSA #27 2021(millions) 171,737

Stats from a quick Wikipedia search. Take them for what you will.

Now we can argue Cleveland CSA vs the others two and there we will find Cleveland has the dominant advantage in population. But where has this population advantage done anything to make Cleveland a true dominant city.

Cleveland can't get out of it's own way and build a regional partnership with its surrounding communities.
I have stated time and time again Cleveland is ahead of the other two C's but it is not a dominant city within the state in the 21st century.

Cincinnati briefly played in the highest league of major cities, but Cleveland passed it before 1900. Another asterisk to Cincy is that while they played in that league, the lines of the American influence map hadn't been completely drawn yet.

Cleveland played in this elite league (which yes, includes NYC) for nearly 100 years. They may have been last place in that league, but they were definitely playing in it.

Some of the things that kept them in this league, I would argue, were built in the modern era such as the Key Tower. Cleveland's subway was built in the post streetcar era. The post streetcar era Columbus is pretty much them arguing in circles for the last 50 years about the feasibility of buses and one mile streetcar routes.

So with regards to things that people around the world actually notice, I'd say Cleveland is still running unopposed.

If you polled only people outside the United States (assuming a passing knowledge of U.S. geography), I wonder how many would even identify Columbus as a major city, let alone the dominate one in Ohio?