OR Legislature passes SB 744 to get rid of math and reading proficiency standards for high schools (credit, how much)

[Kid Ashbury]

...for the sake of "equity", because members of one race of students test lower on average than others, and it's been that way since testing began.

https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/l...Overview/SB744

https://katu.com/news/local/oregon-l...ng-requirement

Which begs the question: what other standards do you think Oregon should suspend because not all races of people do as well as the rest on average?

[jlud]

I know when I have a pilot flying me I want the one that passed because they checked the right boxes, not because of aptitude, scores, or experience. Same with a doctor too…experience and standing is way overrated.

I’m sure our politicians don’t want the best doctors or pilots….I’m sure they don’t request them for themselves or their family. Most certainly they want their lives in the hands of those who weren’t good enough so exceptions were made and standards lowered.

[texasdiver]

The standards are still there. They just aren't going to withhold diplomas based on standardized testing, which is problematic for a lot of reasons.

In other words, you still have to pass English and math and science and other core requirements in order to graduate. You still can't graduate without earning enough credits. And the state standards for what those courses must contain haven't changed. Students already need to demonstrate minimum competency or mastery of those subjects by passing their classes. They are just getting rid of the standardized testing. Or, more accurately, they are keeping the standardized testing for data analysis purposes but no longer using it as the basis for withholding diplomas.

Standardized tests aren't the end all and be all of high school education. If they were we would let smart 8th graders just test out of HS completely by passing the HS competency tests and move into the workforce at age 14.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

The standards are still there. They just aren't going to withhold diplomas based on standardized testing, which is problematic for a lot of reasons.

In other words, you still have to pass English and math and science and other core requirements in order to graduate. And the state standards for what those courses must contain haven't changed. Students already need to demonstrate minimum competency or mastery of those subjects by passing their classes. They are just getting rid of the standardized testing. Or, more accurately, they are keeping the standardized testing for data analysis purposes but no longer using it as the basis for withholding diplomas.

Getting rid of standardized tests will put them in violation of the federal ESSA mandates which will jeopardize funding.

https://www.understood.org/articles/...u-need-to-know

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Getting rid of standardized tests will put them in violation of the federal ESSA mandates which will jeopardize funding.

https://www.understood.org/articles/...u-need-to-know

Yes, the ESSA requires standardized testing. But it doesn't require that standardized test results be used as a graduation requirement. So Oregon will likely keep all the testing. They just won't withhold diplomas based on test results.

I taught in Texas a decade ago when that state had rigid standardized testing requirements for graduation. It doesn't work out like testing advocates describe or wish. What actually happens is that they start the testing early in 11th grade and give kids multiple chances to take the test and those who struggle get pulled out of their elective classes that they are actually interested in (and are often career-oriented like computer science). And instead they get put into mind-numbingly boring testing review classes where they do nothing but drill and prep for the test.

And for those who really can't get over the bar no matter how hard they try? There are always a few good kids who are just very poor test takers. If they are poor they wind up as HS dropouts with no degree. And if they are rich what the parents most often do is find some local nearby private school to enroll the child in for the last week or so of school so that all their grades transfer to the private school and they graduate with a private school degree since private school students aren't required to do the same standardize testing. There were always local private schools who were happy to take parent's money to provide this service.

I had one student who's parents took this route. I don't think she ever darkened the doorway of the private school to which she "transferred". Her parents just paid a tuition payment and all the rest was just paperwork. The private school likes the money without having to actually teach the student. And the public school likes getting a potential dropout or failed student off its books. So win, win, win all around I guess. Except poor kids with disengaged parents don't have that option available.

[North Beach Person]

Maryland started the High School Assessments, and later the PARCC tests, in 9th Grade. Catching up failures had a variety of methods like the pull out sessions, full remedial classes and, finally, projects.

We had zero to few dropouts due to testing. One way or another almost everyone "passed" the tests.

[oregonwoodsmoke]

A race to the bottom.


No one thinks it makes more sense to provide remedial classes and maybe some tutors? Try to get the slower students up to a better standard? Instead of telling the dumb and lazy students it isn't their fault and there is no reason for them to put in any effort?

[Silverfall]

Originally Posted by Kid Ashbury

...for the sake of "equity", because members of one race of students test lower on average than others, and it's been that way since testing began.

https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/l...Overview/SB744

https://katu.com/news/local/oregon-l...ng-requirement

Which begs the question: what other standards do you think Oregon should suspend because not all races of people do as well as the rest on average?

I am a parent of two kids that graduated from Sprague in 2019 and 2021. This is a good thing in my opinion. The essential skills tests are stupid and a waste of money. They are different than the core classes that kids must take and pass.

When I went to high school, I took classes and passed them. That is how I graduated. Oregon is just going back to that. I thought it was the most ridiculous thing ever to have kids take classes, pass them, and then oh wait, you need to take this other test and pass that to actually get your diploma? Why do you think that is a good idea?

One of my kids is a slow test taker. She graduated from Sprague in 2021 with a 3.9 GPA who took honors and AP classes and still hadn't passed her essential writing skills test as of junior year. She was too low by one point. She is a slow writer and gets very anxious with timed writing tests. She was freaking out over that test which they waived because of COVID. How is a 3.9 GPA student below the standards for graduation? White kids can't be poor testers either?

Life is not a speed test and this testing was just more anxiety for kids. I don't think you understand what those tests were. They are NOT about lowering standards. People complain about schools today, but as a parent with recent grads, all of this testing is just beyond ridiculous. It doesn't do what people think it does. All of this testing is one of those ideas that sounds good in your head, but in practicality is just a complete waste of school time and money.

Thankfully, Oregon is self-correcting because this was a terrible policy.

[Silverfall]

Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke

A race to the bottom.


No one thinks it makes more sense to provide remedial classes and maybe some tutors? Try to get the slower students up to a better standard? Instead of telling the dumb and lazy students it isn't their fault and there is no reason for them to put in any effort?

That is not what this is. I know you don't have recent high school graduates so you don't understand why this was a bad policy.

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by Silverfall

That is not what this is. I know you don't have recent high school graduates so you don't understand why this was a bad policy.

Exactly. I've actually taught remedial classes for students who failed standardized tests. There is no remediation "go back over the basics one more time" to any of it. It is all test prep like taking an SAT test prep class. Get the kids just enough test prep to get over the bar and the forget about it after that. It's a complete waste of time.

And honestly, all this effort and angst was just for a very narrow subset of the student population. Most students in the top 75% or so (in terms of test taking skills, not necessarily grades) pass the standardized tests easily. Another 5 or 10% are learning disabled or special ed students who are not going to pass no matter how much drill you do. They simply aren't. And most get excused from the tests anyway.

That leaves about 10% of kids who are "on the bubble" for whom passing the test is going to be touch-and-go. Maybe half of them will pass it in the first or second try which leaves about 5% for whom you really have to struggle. Is it really in the student and state's interest to yank them out of elective classes that they might actually like, that might be career-oriented and the reason they actually like to come to school in the first place to put them into tests drill classes just to get 3 or 5 more multiple choice questions right on the next test? Who does that serve other than the "testing industrial complex" which is composed of companies like Pearson, which is not even an American company, but a UK conglomerate designed to extract billions of tax dollars from American school districts.