"A Mother is Not a Person to Lean on, But a Person to Make Leaning Unnecessary."

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by rkb0305

... but I don't think that is synonymous with not needing anyone to lean on.

I agree with the OP and what she is trying to get to, but I also agree with the above poster. T

[This darn life is all about nuance and fine discriminations and these are exactly the skills we have managed to eradicate almost completely in the past half a century].

It all depends on how much leaning and under what circumstances and for how long.
Leaning as in "parasite-ing" - definitely no.
Leaning as in "having someone to turn to when the sky is falling" - you'd better have someone like that, and that someone'd better be your family.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

My mother grew up during the 60s & 70s. I do think being emotionally unavailable and cutting off your children in a supportive way because they are adults is very, very bad. Bad for the individuals and bad for society at large. A small example: When I had my first son, I was a single mother. He has colic from 6 weeks to about 3 months of age. I had no help. I called my mother, begging her to give me a break for a few hours. By this point, I had locked myself in the bathroom and was bawling myself. Know what she said? She said, "You made your bed, now lie in it." Sorry, but that type of hardness and thought process is wrong. It didn't help me at all. It made me really, really lose a lot of respect for her.

That's just nasty. Nothing else.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by NoExcuses

I don't look for the negative, but I recognize that it's there.

Oh, how perfect. I need to remember to serve this one to my husband when he brings that tray to the table.

Originally Posted by NoExcuses

I think, if anything, what YOU told him will have a greater impact. He will likely be less motivated to try to keep other kids safe since it seems that that is what he was doing by telling your daughter to not climb like that. It was something against the rules and she was breaking that rule in his eyes. IMO.

AMOT (and my opinion too ). Or AMEN.

How sad that there are few children like that today. That was a child who clearly minded what his mother said and internalized a rule that is not all that idiotic after all. Just because he came to your daughter and informed her about "the rule" he learned from his mother doesn't make the child bossy or as you implied, "bad".

The slides clearly are not to be climbed up on.

The trouble is such little rules are no longer "clear" for everyone. We live in post-modern times which by definition means that people no longer agree on the rules. You have Mother 1 who teaches her kid that "slides are not to be climbed on" and you have Mother 2 who teaches her kid "slides CAN be climbed on" as well as "never let anyone else tell you what the rules are". This is understandable given that adults no longer agree on rules of behavior, values etc.

So much for the widely extolled benefits of "diversity of thought".

Originally Posted by NoExcuses

That's a common trait of people who grew up during the depression. It's not all bad though, because you sure learn how to take care of yourself with a mother like that.

I agree with your views most of the times, but if that's what Great Depressions do to people...make them insensitive as a rock, and once they're out of trouble, make them all focused on their own finally "fabulous life", all while sending their exhausted children to "fix it" on their own - then we need to get out of the present one (Depression), very, very fast.

There is a difference between "tough love" and just being a dumb, selfish and insensitive-as-a-rock moron.

Sleep deprivation from a colicky baby is terrible; and if a mother has even the remotest ability to offer some relief to her daughter in that respect, she SHOULD do it.
I "toughed it out when I was in your position" does not fly for me.

[NoExcuses]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

.. A small example: When I had my first son, I was a single mother. He has colic from 6 weeks to about 3 months of age. I had no help. I called my mother, begging her to give me a break for a few hours. By this point, I had locked myself in the bathroom and was bawling myself. Know what she said? She said, "You made your bed, now lie in it." Sorry, but that type of hardness and thought process is wrong. It didn't help me at all. It made me really, really lose a lot of respect for her.

My reply:

Originally Posted by NoExcuses

I agree that parents should not be emotionally unavailable when sincerely needed. I also believe that grown offspring need to know how to solve their own problems.

The colic thing; my oldest screamed for 14 hours every single day from 2 in the afternoon until 4 in the morning, non-stop. Every day for 3 1/2 months. At that time it receded about an hour a week until it was gone. There were a couple times that I called my mother in the middle of the night (my husband worked 3rd shift) and she came over for an hour so I could shut my eyes for a short time.

She was never one to be affectionate and never talked about life or lessons, we learned those things the hard way, but she WAS there for that.

Originally Posted by syracusa

I agree with your views most of the times, but if that's what Great Depressions do to people...make them insensitive as a rock, and once they're out of trouble, make them all focused on their own finally "fabulous life", all while sending their exhausted children to "fix it" on their own - then we need to get out of the present one (Depression), very, very fast.

There is a difference between "tough love" and just being a dumb, selfish and insensitive-as-a-rock moron.

Sleep deprivation from a colicky baby is terrible; and if a mother has even the remotest ability to offer some relief to her daughter in that respect, she SHOULD do it.
I "toughed it out when I was in your position" does not fly for me.

I agree.