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Different times, different mindsets and I suppose if my nieces and nephew and cousins' children ever visit me, I'll be that crazy aunt that has nothing in modern electronics in her home (the list of necessary tools for living out in the country is increasing by leaps & bounds, but that is something else) .
A, B, and C.
A: Two or three semesters ago, on the opening day of class, I forgot to turn off my phone, reached into my pocket, got it out and a student on the stands said, "Wow, a Razr! I haven't seen one of those for years!".
B: I remember back in the early part of this century where my mother visited my younger brother's family and commented how they had every modern electronic device. Flat screens everywhere, streaming, computers galore, everything.
C: Then I remember in the early 70s when calculators first came out and Mom wouldn't allow us to have them. It was a very wise move on her part for my arithmetic skills are firmly in place.
The thing is, you are the parent and how well do you want them to be able to operate in the world when you are not there? I don't think, as I indicated in https://www.city-data.com/forum/psych...ine-games.html that smart phones are essential these days. They are "nice" but I hardly think one needs one to get around.
EDIT: As I read through the pages, I see a lot of entries of people using their smart phones for scheduling, for holding safe combinations, for remembering things that they would otherwise have to remember.
Let me toss out a consideration. We are talking about developing minds. By not requiring them to remember things because something else will do it for them, are we depriving them of some mental development?
I do not know directly on this subject. I do know we develop our wayfinding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayfinding skills at an early age and just shudder if one was given a Garmin instead, but I don't know about memory development (not tonight, not this moment).
As I said, just a consideration.
Funny you should mention that.
When it came to technology, my parents didn't give in. They were parents. Dad didn't buy us a computer for games; told us we could go spend a quarter at the arcade. I don't think the family had a color TV before 1975 and even so, TV watching was very restricted during the school week. In the 60's, before 4th grade, we were limited to only 90 minutes of TV a day.
Etc, etc, etc.......when it came to technology, despite what us kids wanted, my parents were parents.
There is more to parenting than denying children things they want.
Let's talk about calculators and when they should be commonplace in one's development. As I said, I believe Mom's decision to forbid us their use when I was in 6-7th grade was a very wise one. I can do arithmetic licky split in my head faster than people can punch in the keys. I can multiply two 3 digit numbers purely in my head.
It is more, however, than just keeping track of numbers. It is also an understanding of numbers and how they work. Take long division and its remainders, for example. By being able to see numbers that way, one is better able to write a sifting computer program such as for an ATM. What's the answer for a request of $1226.36? Twelve Franklins, One Jackson, One Lincoln, One Washington, one quarter, one dime, one penny. The ATM program I did in the 90's was like that; it wasn't "lazy", but took the calculation down to its last point.
Are people, however, able to think like that if they are so use to reaching for a calculator whenever they have to run numbers, whenever they see numbers? How might I calculate my .0825 sales tax? Usually, it's take the 10%, then take 1% off that amount, take another 1% off, then divide that 1% by 4 and add that. I can run the calculation either way, divide from above or multiply from the bottom. Can, however, people do that these days when they have learned from an early age to let a machine figure it out for them instead?
Your accountants, I take it, are adults. Okay, that's okay for them, but perhaps not if they were not adults.
GETTING BACK TO THE POINT, should a 16 year old be given a device that might rob her of the mental development she should be doing?
As far as the cooking goes, the stove is gas, the microwave is electric. With a ranch full of wood, the backup to that is at least a campfire, though it maybe a wood stove someday. In this particular question, however, it is probably best to look at what is essential in life and therefore we should approach in an efficient manner. Hence, we cook on indoor stoves.
Then, there are other things that may not be so essential that they must be handled so efficiently.
Does one think as much about the problem at hand if they let a machine do the thinking for them? A think tank project I have done on, off for the past 20 years is ALSYS (pronounced A-Lese) for Automatic Landing System. ALSYS is to look down from an aircraft to determine wind speed and direction on the ground so the machine can figure how to land into the wind. In an early discussion, a contributor noted that this was great, it could be used for a spacecraft landing by looking at blowing fields of grain. (Just a summary here for we are not really talking about ALSYS)
Does one appreciate the natural world and the potential applications if they are always looking at some device in their hands? I submit to "you" that no, they don't, and they miss out on having this ability to figure out how to do things. I submit to the OP that perhaps in the teenage mind, they should be learning about the world, to interact with it, to understand it. Later on when they are an adult and things are complicated, then they can use a machine to help them but perhaps not now.
A cell phone is probably essential in our modern world but for a teen, a smart phone may not be.
Judging by my own kids, technology, including smartphones, has only been a positive. Yes, some of the features were unnecessary for basic communication and safety. But that's exactly what I use my smartphone for. My kids, who were raised in an age of exploding technology, actually took advantage of everything their phones could do. They read the manuals! They learned how to program them to function far beyond anything I was doing.
Technology isn't going away, and it's pointless to deny it to kids. It doesn't have to inhibit reading, writing and arithmetic, it can expand them.
Judging by my own kids, technology, including smartphones, has only been a positive. Yes, some of the features were unnecessary for basic communication and safety. But that's exactly what I use my smartphone for. My kids, who were raised in an age of exploding technology, actually took advantage of everything their phones could do. They read the manuals! They learned how to program them to function far beyond anything I was doing.
Technology isn't going away, and it's pointless to deny it to kids. It doesn't have to inhibit reading, writing and arithmetic, it can expand them.
As long as it does not intefere with actual human interaction. Sadly every single day, many of us get to see it has. However we are told it has not. I think it's great the kids get to use all this technology. I'm just concerned that people especially younger people. Show a definite lack of people skills on jobs, social gatherings and public places. This constantly staring at a phone, and showing no concern for other people they may be imposing on. I find very offensive as well as very dangerous.
As long as it does not intefere with actual human interaction. Sadly every single day, many of us get to see it has. However we are told it has not. I think it's great the kids get to use all this technology. I'm just concerned that people especially younger people. Show a definite lack of people skills on jobs, social gatherings and public places. This constantly staring at a phone, and showing no concern for other people they may be imposing on. I find very offensive as well as very dangerous.
Agreed. I see this at the restaurant all the time. Parents are at the table, staring at the phone, totally ignoring the kids, often throughout the entire meal, and if the kids are older and have smartphones themselves, the whole family is engrossed in their respective devices oblivious to the world around them. What's the point of having a family meal at a restaurant if everyone is hiding behind a phone screen?
Parents are the adults. Just because kids want something doesn't mean they should have it. Many parents now have a distinct inability to push that very important no button. As for the idea that the parent can get the smartphone for the child and just set limits on its use, it's impossible to do that if the parent doesn't limit the use of their own personal phone.
You know, there's a broader point that some have alluded to, about parenting styles here.
I was a child in the 60s and 70s. I can assure you that the need to fit in with one's peer group was just as strong then as now, and that it was also highly predicated on the possession of consumption items and on participation in pop culture.
My parents made their own decisions and so there were a number of things I did not have that all my friends did. For example, we never had a television. My mother did not allow me to have any toy guns at home. (My grandmother had a TV, and she did buy me toy guns, but I still was nonconforming compared to my peer group, in a big way.) These were not the only items like this, just a couple of examples. There were also some cases where I did get to have things that all the other kids had, for example I had some really nice skateboards, and I was bought a car when I turned 16 (although it was a $1000 very used car).
There were a lot of times I was uncomfortable or felt left out because I was not conforming to my peer group. I believe that was exceptionally good for me. I learned that it was possible to be different and be successful, in fact that nonconformity had its advantages. I don't mean being a nonconformist by wearing exactly the same nonconformist clothing as all my friends, I mean being a nonconformist by actually thinking about things differently than they.
Now in my fifties, I believe that I think about a lot of things differently than others, and this has been key to a lot of my own personal happiness in life. I think that an experience of not being a routine member of the crowd in childhood has contributed to this.
I would like to know whether more really interesting people who have gone their own way in life, had childhoods where their parents made it easy for them to fit in with their peer group, versus not fitting in seamlessly like another cog in the machine.
Don't forget, too, that the vast majority of childhood drives for conformity in our society are manufactured by adults for the sole purpose of selling more goods, services, and entertainment products for profit; they are not things the kids come up with on their own.
You know, there's a broader point that some have alluded to, about parenting styles here.
I was a child in the 60s and 70s. I can assure you that the need to fit in with one's peer group was just as strong then as now, and that it was also highly predicated on the possession of consumption items and on participation in pop culture.
I remember my sister asking for designer jeans. Mom bought them for a present one year, despite the fact that it was way out of the norm for their budget. Sister tore the tags off. All she wanted was jeans that fit right, but she sure did not want to advertise a designer label! I think it is a family thing. I have never cared one whit about fitting in or participation in pop culture. I am glad that my kids don't either. One kid has a phone and only ever charges or uses it when *I* need him to. The other contacts her friends for planning get togethers and whatnot. She uses it to text me, and for me to get in contact with her. Works for us.
Parents are the adults. Just because kids want something doesn't mean they should have it. Many parents now have a distinct inability to push that very important no button. As for the idea that the parent can get the smartphone for the child and just set limits on its use, it's impossible to do that if the parent doesn't limit the use of their own personal phone.
I don't have a smartphone--don't want one and most of the time don't even know where my dumb phone is. DH makes me carry it when I leave the house as I have some health issues and he worries.
Interesting wrinkle in our phone situation. Said daughter was very pleased to get the OK for a phone. She did her own research and let us know which phone she wanted. Some gadget which costs more than $600! Of course she does!!! We said absolutely not and that we had set a limit of between $100-$150 and there are perfectly good phones for much less. Then she offered to make up the difference out of her own allowance. Again we said NO.
We had a long talk about how all the bells and whistles on the expensive phones would just be wasted on her as her life is very simple right now and we simply do not start off with the very best of anything. I told about my 1968 Volkswagon which was my first car and how proud I was to be buying my own car with earned income. We talked about starter houses and how some folks live in the very first house they bought for their entire lives...there is no need to "upgrade" even if they can.
We talked about security and how vulnerable she would be for theft of the expensive phone and we talked about how heartbroken she would be if she lost or broke such an expensive phone. She admitted she hadn't thought about some of those things and seems very content now just to be getting a phone. No data plan either because she is never anywhere without wifi anyhow.
Thanks to everyone for your comments. Rep points where I could.
Thought I would add that these girls are Vietnamese so they kind of don't "fit in" as it is. I certainly understand the need to fit in at this age. I certainly felt the same way.
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