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I'm sorry this happened. I worry in the long run this job (I really have zero idea what your son really does) is not going to be a good fit, no matter how much he believes he loves it. I am a former music major, but I know you've said this isn't music industry related. I guess I'm not clear on whether this "sort" of job is likely to be have similar issues at a different site/company, or if your son has just fallen in with coworkers he's very different from, or if the issue is simply that he is 18 and they are much, MUCH older and this is just never going to work for that reason (which I worried about from the start.)
I've said this before, but here's what I think he should do. Your son is 18. What is developmentally appropriate for him right now is to be amongst other 18-year-olds, doing 18-year-old things. Socializing with them. Going to parties. Meeting girls. Dating. Attending classes (gently, if necessary.) Your son should IMHO absolutely not be thrust into the sex, drugs and rock and roll world where he's with adults who are waaaay older than him when he's had I think you said one girlfriend and all his coworkers want to go to bars until 1 in the morning. A kid who's struggled with depression issues? I would do EVERYTHING in my power to gently persuade him to come home, and give that junior college, or a local university a try.
I know you said he wasn't wild about high school. I get that. But I think this option he's currently chosen could be far, far more detrimental to his mental health than his high school experience, and if he chooses to skip his college years... he's never going to be able to get that time back. It gets much harder to connect, date and make friends after college.
As far as the specific incident, I would simply not agree to go out with these coworkers in the future, and if the issue is he is relying on them for a ride going from a worksite to a hotel, then call an uber rather than wait somewhere he feels unsafe.
I won’t say what industry, but “sex, drugs and rock and roll” isn’t too far off the mark. (Not music, though).
The other thing I think he needs to honestly consider is whether this is the right industry for him. Without knowing specifics and only what you've vaguely hinted that it's “sex, drugs and rock and roll” and your son has pretty much the opposite value system--is he going to be *happy* working in this industry if the expectation is to be in that environment during work hours, and then to either socialize with professional contacts after work hours in the way you described in your post or be ostracized?
If it's just this particular job that's a bad fit, that's one thing. If it's just that he's too young and maybe in 5 years he'd enjoy the environment and coworkers, that's another. But it could also be a wake up call that this career choice isn't quite the right one for him, no matter how much talent he has for it and maybe he should find something similar to do, but that aligns more closely with his values.
Of course I’ve been thinking about this all day...and many of you have hit the nail on the head.
The boss is going to do this again. The pressure to drink, to have casual sex, and other things which I haven’t even mentioned...it’s going to happen again, and my son will have to be ready for how he is going to respond.
How to respond should include recording everything with an iPhone.
He recently had a work trip to a major, flashy city. One of his bosses and another coworker were there as well—and they went out to some bars. My son was taken along, even though he cannot get in anywhere. Some places he could wait in the lobby, or there was a restaurant part, but at one place they left him outside while they went in and drank. It was 1 am, in an unsafe city with homeless people and druggies everywhere. My son is 5’9” and 135 pounds...so it’s not as if he is intimidating.
A)His coworkers are jerks.
B)Why didn't he just leave them and get an uber back to his hotel room?
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He is also consistently mocked and ridiculed by everyone he works with because he doesn’t want to drink. My son went through a really difficult time at 16/17 and is really adamant about not drinking for many personal and medical reasons.
I didn't drink when I was 18 either, and underage drinking back then was much more widespread than it is now. Personally I found that people were only jerks about it if I was an jerks about it (i.e. acting like I was judging them for drinking, or like I was just so above it all, or whatever). Given that these guys are jerks, I doubt it's about the drinking per se, more like this is an opening for bullying because it's something he's sensitive and dramatic about, and will overreact in response to. If he doesn't want to call them on their douchebaggery, and doesn't have the spine to just be like "shut up, fratboys," he needs to practice some casual refusals and responses, maybe the occasional social white lie, so they'll lose interest in razzing him about it. "Nah, I'll pass, thanks." "Maybe next time, I've got plans early tomorrow morning." "Nah, I just don't like booze." "Hey, don't be a hoser about it or I won't be your DD." "If you must know, I'm taking a medication that doesn't play nicely with alcohol." And at a social event, it's easy enough to just fill a cup with seltzer or something and not make a show of not drinking.
Turns out the pressure has been building for months. “Why aren’t you ******* everything that moves? Are you gay?” (He is not gay). “You’re young, you should be having tons of sex”. “How big is your ****?” One of the bosses also discusses how many women he sleeps with per week (which sounds like BS to me.)
My husband says this is how guys talk. I say these aren’t his friends or his frat brothers; these are his employers and it is wrong.
As to the drinking, constant pressure from one of the bosses to drink...”your dad drinks, why don’t you? What’s wrong with you that you don’t drink?” (For the record we are light drinkers, mostly beer and wine).
My son says, “this is not who I am and not who I want to be.”
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Originally Posted by kitkatbar
I've said this before, but here's what I think he should do. Your son is 18. What is developmentally appropriate for him right now is to be amongst other 18-year-olds, doing 18-year-old things. Socializing with them. Going to parties. Meeting girls. Dating. Attending classes (gently, if necessary.) Your son should IMHO absolutely not be thrust into the sex, drugs and rock and roll world where he's with adults who are waaaay older than him when he's had I think you said one girlfriend and all his coworkers want to go to bars until 1 in the morning. A kid who's struggled with depression issues? I would do EVERYTHING in my power to gently persuade him to come home, and give that junior college, or a local university a try.
You can lead a horse to water...
I did mention college. Just two years I said. Resounding no. One of the things that has me most upset is that I agreed to this job instead of junior college. He could be getting ready to go to the school in California right now. When his boss told me they would mentor him, I didn’t think that meant alcohol and sex.
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As far as the specific incident, I would simply not agree to go out with these coworkers in the future, and if the issue is he is relying on them for a ride going from a worksite to a hotel, then call an uber rather than wait somewhere he feels unsafe.
. Yes...unfortunately it’s happening in the work place as well.
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Originally Posted by GSPNative
How to respond should include recording everything with an iPhone.
Yeah IDK how much of this is legal.
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Originally Posted by Frostnip
B)Why didn't he just leave them and get an uber back to his hotel room?
I’m not sure. I think he felt intimidated...going along with the crowd is easier sometimes. He has a lot of
conviction but not a lot of confidence, if that makes sense.
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I didn't drink when I was 18 either, and underage drinking back then was much more widespread than it is now. Personally I found that people were only jerks about it if I was an jerks about it (i.e. acting like I was judging them for drinking, or like I was just so above it all, or whatever). Given that these guys are jerks, I doubt it's about the drinking per se, more like this is an opening for bullying because it's something he's sensitive and dramatic about, and will overreact in response to. If he doesn't want to call them on their douchebaggery, and doesn't have the spine to just be like "shut up, fratboys," he needs to practice some casual refusals and responses, maybe the occasional social white lie, so they'll lose interest in razzing him about it. "Nah, I'll pass, thanks." "Maybe next time, I've got plans early tomorrow morning." "Nah, I just don't like booze." "Hey, don't be a hoser about it or I won't be your DD." "If you must know, I'm taking a medication that doesn't play nicely with alcohol." And at a social event, it's easy enough to just fill a cup with seltzer or something and not make a show of not drinking.
I’ve told him, make sure you aren’t being condescending about it. I said, can’t you just say “no thanks man, it’s not for me”? And he says he tries that, but they don’t accept it.
It seems they think if he drinks he will loosen up and be someone different or better....which makes me wonder, why did they hire him in the first place?
My son says they want to change him—and what they don’t understand about him is that the more they pressure him to do something, the more he will dig his heels in (I am the same way.)
Last edited by calgirlinnc; 08-08-2021 at 08:30 PM..
My son has his first full time “career path” job. He is 18. (He has been working there for a year but just went full time after graduation.). I won’t say what industry, but “sex, drugs and rock and roll” isn’t too far off the mark. (Not music, though).
He recently had a work trip to a major, flashy city. One of his bosses and another coworker were there as well—and they went out to some bars. My son was taken along, even though he cannot get in anywhere. Some places he could wait in the lobby, or there was a restaurant part, but at one place they left him outside while they went in and drank. It was 1 am, in an unsafe city with homeless people and druggies everywhere. My son is 5’9” and 135 pounds...so it’s not as if he is intimidating.
My son was p’o’d and told us about it. He also told his other boss about it. The boss who was there has now yelled at my son, and accused him of lying about it and making the whole thing up. He told my son he was damaging his reputation because my son kept repeating the lie. I asked my son, “did this happen?” and he said yes. My son has his share of faults, and he may not tell us everything, but he isn’t a liar (my husband is like that too—honest to a fault.).
The boss also shamed him for telling us about it—even though we didn’t do anything other than to suggest that he respectfully tell his boss he doesn’t want to do that again and to leave him at the hotel. (The boss found out he told us because my son told the other worker that he told us and that worker told the boss—lesson already learned there).
On top of that, my son was encouraged to find a woman to bring back to the hotel to “make a man out of him.” He is also consistently mocked and ridiculed by everyone he works with because he doesn’t want to drink. My son went through a really difficult time at 16/17 and is really adamant about not drinking for many personal and medical reasons.
Sadly, this isn’t even all of it.
One of the things my son works through in therapy is focusing on his values. He was really proud of himself because he was true to his values (such as regarding the woman in the room). But I think he needs a lot more help establishing professional boundaries. I know he is green, but not necessarily naive or overly sheltered. Just not sure how to advise him.
The issue is not your son, tell him to find a job with a company that has some integrity. The people he is working for do not.
I’m not sure. I think he felt intimidated...going along with the crowd is easier sometimes. He has a lot of conviction but not a lot of confidence, if that makes sense.
Yeah, but there's going along with the crowd, then there's standing outside a bar for hours in sketchy area. I'm not minimizing how much his co-workers' behavior is inappropriate, nor excusing them, but if he doesn't have the executive skills to do the straightforward task of getting himself out of that situation and back to the hotel (summon taxi or ride service, get in when it arrives, text co-workers to let them know you've left) he might not be mature enough to be traveling for work at all.
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My son says they want to change him
IDK, it sounds more like they want to tease or haze him.
Yeah, but there's going along with the crowd, then there's standing outside a bar for hours in sketchy area. I'm not minimizing how much his co-workers' behavior is inappropriate, nor excusing them, but if he doesn't have the executive skills to do the straightforward task of getting himself out of that situation and back to the hotel (summon taxi or ride service, get in when it arrives, text co-workers to let them know you've left) he might not be mature enough to be traveling for work at all.
It wasn’t for hours, 20-30 minutes maybe, and to be fair to him, they hadn’t even checked into the hotel yet. It’s easy to say what he should have done in retrospect, and now he knows too.
The next night he refused to go.
Last edited by calgirlinnc; 08-09-2021 at 08:52 AM..
I also wanted to mention that the junior college he was going to go to is offering one in person class in his major. Everything else would be online. Our local ju cos do not offer his classes, just GE, which he won’t do.
How to respond should include recording everything with an iPhone.
I disagree.
The kid (adult) either needs to stand up to this on his own or he needs to find a new line of work.
What is recording everything with an I-Phone going to accomplish?
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