Wage Tax, Real Estate Tax, Taxes in General (Philadelphia, Harrisburg: homes, neighborhood)

[PHLondoner]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I listed what what city residents get which you also get if you show up in the city to be entertained. Call 911. They won't ask where you live. Go to Wissahickon Valley Park. No one will care if you're not a city resident.

The other thing suburbanites forget is that we are footing the bill for their enjoyment of our City.

They come and enjoy a dinner, show and shopping - under the protection of the police that we pay for; the safety that our fire fighters and EMTs provide; the street-sweeping and trash collection that residents of Center City (like me) and the city pays for with CCD; they enjoy strolling, sitting and gazing in Rittenhouse Square (landscaping and cleaning paid for by both the city and residents); they enjoy our Parkway for myriad walks and events that are organized and protected by our police officers and organized by City Hall; they fly in and out of the Airport which the city owns and maintains; they enjoy games down at the sports complex in stadiums that the city helped finance and build and kept safe and clean by City employees. The list goes on and on.

So city residents' taxes pay for suburbanites enjoyment of our city. To quote Colonel Jessup, "I'd rather they just said 'Thank you' and went on their way."

[timeEd32]

He's not wrong though. Talking about cost savings on car insurance and property taxes when moving from NJ to Philly is much more of a NJ vs. PA discussion than city vs. suburbs. NJ is among the national leaders in both property taxes and car ins. rates.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Debbie1125

My house would still sell for the amount it was assessed for in 2018. I have not made any improvements. Also, the values on my block are so screwed up. There is no consistency whatsoever.

I am appealing much like I did after AVI took affect. Even if I do succeed in getting my assessment back to something more realistic, I will be moving out of Philadelphia. I'm tired of these constant tax increases, and residents are going to keep electing the same crappy people. It's exhausting doing battle with the OPA every few years.

Are folks who make the leap say to the burbs aware that RE taxes are not static in many of those burbs?

In Haverford Twp/Delco, where I paid taxes on my mom's house.... long story as to why...taxes went up up every single year and there was no way to appeal it or make adjustments. And like others have said don't get deluded into thinking that the burbs are cheaper.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by PHLondoner

The other thing suburbanites forget is that we are footing the bill for their enjoyment of our City.

They come and enjoy a dinner, show and shopping - under the protection of the police that we pay for; the safety that our fire fighters and EMTs provide; the street-sweeping and trash collection that residents of Center City (like me) and the city pays for with CCD; they enjoy strolling, sitting and gazing in Rittenhouse Square (landscaping and cleaning paid for by both the city and residents); they enjoy our Parkway for myriad walks and events that are organized and protected by our police officers and organized by City Hall; they fly in and out of the Airport which the city owns and maintains; they enjoy games down at the sports complex in stadiums that the city helped finance and build and kept safe and clean by City employees. The list goes on and on.

So city residents' taxes pay for suburbanites enjoyment of our city. To quote Colonel Jessup, "I'd rather they just said 'Thank you' and went on their way."

I forgot about the airport!

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by eliza61nyc

Oh definitely.

the problem with South Jersey simply is the property taxes are astronomical. I started my career in the South Philly refineries (Arco and sunococ). all my coworkers who worked there and lived in places like Cherry Hill, Gibbsboro, Haddonfield were simply forced to move back to Philly and quite frankly are loving it.

We all have pretty much the typical story, got a job, had kids, had to move because of the school situation but all were forced (forced being relative) to sell and move back. same story. property taxes 12, 15, 22K a year. can you image paying 2000 bucks a month on property taxes!! I know 3 and we are not talking big 5,000 square foot homes here.

Now of course living in a big city has it's issues, my point with londoner is that there were not "alternative" facts. I love how people throw that out when they don't agree with your point of view.

In my situation it's not rocket science. Now the "value" thing of course is very subjective. I don't have small children so I don't need a 1/2 acre yard or organized sports anymore. My food bill has not gone up or down. I do the same thing in Philly that I did in the suburbs, shop at Shoprite and acme, some times hit Reading terminal for bulk wings and things. I rarely buy soda but try to cut back on that long ago. LOL, I do love whole foods. man they have great fresh bread and cheese but I can't afford to shop for my family there.

My services, trash, snow removal. no issues with. traffic, yep pain in the backside. library. not something on my "value" radar but I love having the franklin Institute and the theater. I love the free stuff in the summer.

I definitely understand where you're coming from.

The biggest problem in NJ is the burden caused by the Abbott Districts that has caused the huge spikes in property taxes. Still, property values have been traditionally lower than Pennsylvania suburbs, so it can be a case by case thing. Hopefully the new governor figures out a better way to deal with that problem.

Totally agree that the poster who you addressed didn't get the connection, which has been there since colonial times.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by PHLondoner

The other thing suburbanites forget is that we are footing the bill for their enjoyment of our City.

They come and enjoy a dinner, show and shopping - under the protection of the police that we pay for; the safety that our fire fighters and EMTs provide; the street-sweeping and trash collection that residents of Center City (like me) and the city pays for with CCD; they enjoy strolling, sitting and gazing in Rittenhouse Square (landscaping and cleaning paid for by both the city and residents); they enjoy our Parkway for myriad walks and events that are organized and protected by our police officers and organized by City Hall; they fly in and out of the Airport which the city owns and maintains; they enjoy games down at the sports complex in stadiums that the city helped finance and build and kept safe and clean by City employees. The list goes on and on.

So city residents' taxes pay for suburbanites enjoyment of our city. To quote Colonel Jessup, "I'd rather they just said 'Thank you' and went on their way."

The commuters are pretty much aware of that as the commuters are paying the city wage tax. Commuters help to pay for police & fire protection.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

The commuters are pretty much aware of that as the commuters are paying the city wage tax. Commuters help to pay for police & fire protection.

Yup and don't forget sales taxes, gas taxes, etc.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

Yup and don't forget sales taxes, gas taxes, etc.

Yup, I didn't want to seem like I was pounding on the poster, but whether a commuter lives in Pennsylvania, South Jersey, or Delaware, those people are acutely aware of the taxes that they put into Philadelphia's coffers. They're aware, their families are aware, & at least some of their friends & families are aware. To think that people in the suburbs are blissfully ignorant is delusional.

[1ondoner]

We don't come to Center City to gawk at the buildings. We pay for the goods and services we consume, of which the taxes paid go to the city coffers. And don't get me started on the cost of parking in Center city.

It's you guys who should thank us, for we can take our $$$$ elsewhere.

Originally Posted by PHLondoner

So city residents' taxes pay for suburbanites enjoyment of our city. To quote Colonel Jessup, "I'd rather they just said 'Thank you' and went on their way."

[FKD19124]

<SARCASM>You just be quiet and pay your taxes and like it! If we rich elitist liberals on city council can afford them, then you can too! Hire a cleaning service to clean up around your property like we do!! </SARCASM>

Originally Posted by BK_PHL_DEL

I couldn't find a previous thread on a discussion about just taxes, so I am starting one now. The 2019 assessments are now posted on the Phila.gov website and my local Fishtown facebook group has 400+ comments about it in one thread. Pretty much everyone's valuations have gone up, with seemingly no consistency. Is it a straight cash grab by the city?

We are in year 2 of our abatement. Without the abatement, our RE tax would be $6,270 (millage rate of 14 mils, or 1.4%). This is with our assessed value being our purchase price of the house, which I am not sure is the correct value to use for the assessment. Add wage tax of around $7,000 and our total taxes to the City of Philadelphia is $13,270!

And, for what? No street cleaning, garbage men sloppily dumping our trash onto streets, no enforcement of parking/unsafe sidewalks, billions in uncollected backtaxes, with a mayor who has the audacity to raise taxes on us, the taxpayers before going after the backtaxes first, etc.

I am starting to think that moving to the suburbs will be the better move, especially financially. There are some listings in the neighborhood of $450k for a 3bed/2bath in Paoli/Malvern/West Chester for example whose 2018 RE taxes were $5,000 or just under. Assuming the township has a 1% wage tax or EIT, that would be just $1,800 for a total tax of $6,800 or so! How can the taxes in the suburbs be so much less than Philly when those tax dollars go SO much further in the suburbs? Am I missing something here?