Philadelphia's lack of highways and freeways.. . (Washington, Franklin: 2013, neighborhoods, living in)

[OptimusPrime69]

Mod cut- Please note that this thread was started in 2013

Why does Philly not have many freeways and highways like other cities? The Schuylkill Expressway is like a tiny little cattle shoot going out to KOP....and I476 is only 2 lanes each direction in DelCo..

why isn't there more of an extensive freeway system like other cities have?

[FindingZen]

I think SEPTA's strong presence probably made adding more freeways unnecessary until more companies moved to or sprang up in the 'burbs. We're the opposite of car-dependent Detroit in that way. As dense as the city and metro in general are, good luck trying to convince people to move out for or otherwise accept a freeway going through their neighborhood.

[OptimusPrime69]

Originally Posted by Tone509

I think SEPTA's strong presence probably made adding more freeways unnecessary until more companies moved to or sprang up in the 'burbs. We're the opposite of car-dependent Detroit in that way. As dense as the city and metro in general are, good luck trying to convince people to move out for or otherwise accept a freeway going through their neighborhood.

Northern Virginia has an amazing freeway system. DC in general is served by an extensive and useful freeway infrastructure....leaves philly in the dust.

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by OptimusPrime69

Northern Virginia has an amazing freeway system. DC in general is served by an extensive and useful freeway infrastructure....leaves philly in the dust.

The people who get caught in the four-hour conga lines every weekday morning and afternoon here in Northern Virginia might disagree but I'll admit that it is more developed. Then again, transit is a relative latecomer to the DC metro area so freeways and highways were definitely a higher priority.

On the other hand, while much of NOVA's (and suburban MD's) highway system is buffeted by tree-lined barriers, DC freeways bisect some neighborhoods. I've heard of many anecdotes from the middle of the last century about cities where transit was ripped out or totally ignored in favor of highways that essentially cut off if not destroyed neighborhoods.

I think unless Philly proper was able to enact eminent domain, build double-decker freeways, or both, it will be difficult to impossible to expand the road system. It would be even tougher in the 'burbs IMO.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

In my three years of living in Philadelphia, I have had no need to get in a car. One of the reasons this continues to be a tolerable place to live is that it is a place for people, not a place for cars.

[Craziaskowboi]

The Schuylkill Expressway needs to be upgraded to modern Interstate standards, period. I'm talking about upgrading an existing highway, not building a new one.

It's a travesty that the two busiest segments of Interstate in Pennsylvania are as functionally obsolete as they are.

[bryson662001]

Originally Posted by Tone509

I think SEPTA's strong presence probably made adding more freeways unnecessary until more companies moved to or sprang up in the 'burbs. We're the opposite of car-dependent Detroit in that way. As dense as the city and metro in general are, good luck trying to convince people to move out for or otherwise accept a freeway going through their neighborhood.

^
This
Philadelphia is one of the oldest and densest cities in the country and was already a huge city at the time interstates were starting to be built. Every road that was planed or proposed was fought bitterly by nimbys who didn't want their existing neighborhoods demolished, whether in the city or the suburbs. Only a Robert Moses could have accomplished it and Philly didn't have one. Washington's "Robert Moses" was the deep pockets of the federal government and of course Washington metro was much smaller in that period.

[rotodome]

^And the highways that Robert Moses did manage to get built through NYC are pretty pitiful and inadequate by modern highway standards as well. Cross-Bronx Expressway anyone? BQE?
This just comes with the territory of trying to impose highways on top of big old densely populated cities.

[OptimusPrime69]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

The Schuylkill Expressway needs to be upgraded to modern Interstate standards, period. I'm talking about upgrading an existing highway, not building a new one.

It's a travesty that the two busiest segments of Interstate in Pennsylvania are as functionally obsolete as they are.

Yes, I completely agree. It's just awful and it's so small and goofy for lack of a better description. Constantly jammed.... not many exits, it's just not a modern highway.... for such a main thoroughfare, it sure is not given any attention. . . . I see existing highways in the sunbelt being expanded all of the time. . . why not in Philly?

[BirchBarlow]

Here's what the Philadelphia highway system was originally supposed to look like...



Obviously some of these are redundant and unnecessary, and would have torn up neighborhoods (i.e. 695 and) the Girard Ave Expressway. But others would really be useful and would facilitate population and economic growth (i.e. The Ten Mile Loop, 309).

As you can see, the Betsy Ross Bridge was supposed to be directly connected to the Boulevard, which was supposed to be build as a full freeway. As it stands now, the Betsy Ross Bridge is underutilized because people go out of their way on the return trip to take the Tacony-Palmayra bridge and avoid the $5 toll. It stands to reason if the Betsy Ross Bridge were directly connected to the Boulevard, people would be more willing to use it despite the toll, taking some of the burden off the Tacony and maybe even the Ben Franklin Bridge, and also bringing in more toll revenue for the DRPA. They could probably still build the connection, some properties would have to be taken, but I think if the city had the political will it could be done. The Boulevard could also probably be converted into a depressed freeway vis a vis the Vine Street Expressway. The Boulevard is currently six lanes in each direction, so it could probably be converted into a 3 lane expressway without taking any property.

I certainly agree with the premise of this thread, compared to other cities, even Boston and DC, the Philadelphia highway system certainly sucks and leaves much to be desired. Urban planner types are always clamoring for more mass transit, but mass transit really doesn't make up for lack of highway connectivity. Mass transit does nothing for commercial traffic, and while transit may take some traffic off of the roads, it doesn't make driving from point a to point b any easier if point a and point b aren't directly connected by road.