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They funny thing is, up until 1987 (only 30 years ago), the tallest building was Philly's City Hall at 548 feet (167 m) which was finished in 1901 and there was a gentleman's agreement to never build anything taller than that, but since 1987 developers have built 10 buildings higher than that
And 21 years later, The Curse of Billy Penn was finally broken when the Phillies won the 2008 World Series .
I already looked into this, if you made the city just the area between Washington St and Bell Rd and took out the mountains (since no one can live on them), you would have a city of 900,000 people in about 155 sq miles of developable land, which would be a population density of 5,800ppsm
I definitely wouldn't cut off the city boundaries at Washington Street ... after all, that is the city's core. I would include all of south Phoenix excluding Laveen and Ahwatukee/Foothills (those should be separate communities), and would seek to deannex the northern suburban areas such as Paradise Valley Village, Desert Ridge, and Deer Valley. The city of Phoenix would be more compressed and much denser, but would still be well over 200 square miles with a population of slightly over a million people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS
Ill go out on a limb and say that PHX is definitely attracting more unskilled workers than not. There is a growing feeling that we are slowly bringing in entrepreneurial, ambitious workers, but there just wont be enough to make a big dent. People like that go to places like NYC, CHI, SF, ATL, BOS, MPLS, etc. The southern portions of the USA have generally been, for lack of better words, less ambitious than their northern counterparts. Its true. Ive lived in the south and southwest, and the lack of ambition is quite shocking. Up north there is a drive to be successful. Its in the air when you walk around the big cities. You see limos and marble-walled highrises. Business women and men on power lunches in their S Class Mercedes. Here in the southern portions of the US, the drive just doesn't seem to be there. People leave the fast life of the north and east for the relaxed lifestyle of the south, and I think that plays into things. Is it true for everybody? No, not even. But you can see it and feel it in the south. We even dress casually!
Long story short, highly skilled and ambitious workers flock to the cities I mentioned above because that high class, fast-paced business life is what they want, and I think places like PHX (on a whole) just don't offer it, therefore we tend to attract the people who would rather have sun and a slower life than those who really don't give a crap and gravitate towards high-powered business.
Make sense?
It actually does make sense ... however, the exception to this would be cities like Los Angeles and Houston, which are located in "southern" regions, but are power driven, successful cities with a high number of Fortune 500/Fortune 1,000 company HQs. Both Houston and L.A. are still quite a bit larger than Phoenix in population, but Phoenix is quickly becoming a very largely populated city & metro region. With our high population ranking, I think we should be acting our size ... in other words, putting more emphasis on being business oriented, instead being a slow paced, desert resort oasis where everybody moves here for retirement, or because it's sunnier & cheaper.
I definitely wouldn't cut off the city boundaries at Washington Street ... after all, that is the city's core. I would include all of south Phoenix excluding Laveen and Ahwatukee/Foothills (those should be separate communities), and would seek to deannex the northern suburban areas such as Paradise Valley Village, Desert Ridge, and Deer Valley. The city of Phoenix would be more compressed and much denser, but would still be well over 200 square miles with a population of slightly over a million people.
It actually does make sense ... however, the exception to this would be cities like Los Angeles and Houston, which are located in "southern" regions, but are power driven, successful cities with a high number of Fortune 500/Fortune 1,000 company HQs. Both Houston and L.A. are still quite a bit larger than Phoenix in population, but Phoenix is quickly becoming a very largely populated city & metro region. With our high population ranking, I think we should be acting our size ... in other words, putting more emphasis on being business oriented, instead being a slow paced, desert resort oasis where everybody moves here for retirement, or because it's sunnier & cheaper.
Isn't this how Phoenix stands out compared to other big cities in similar regard? If Phoenix wants to be like LA, Dallas, and Seattle then it's no different from other urban areas. Won't this further the gap bigger with the haves and have nots, basically widening the gap from the rich and poor?
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,590 posts, read 14,735,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
I definitely wouldn't cut off the city boundaries at Washington Street ... after all, that is the city's core. I would include all of south Phoenix excluding Laveen and Ahwatukee/Foothills (those should be separate communities), and would seek to deannex the northern suburban areas such as Paradise Valley Village, Desert Ridge, and Deer Valley. The city of Phoenix would be more compressed and much denser, but would still be well over 200 square miles with a population of slightly over a million people.
It actually does make sense ... however, the exception to this would be cities like Los Angeles and Houston, which are located in "southern" regions, but are power driven, successful cities with a high number of Fortune 500/Fortune 1,000 company HQs. Both Houston and L.A. are still quite a bit larger than Phoenix in population, but Phoenix is quickly becoming a very largely populated city & metro region. With our high population ranking, I think we should be acting our size ... in other words, putting more emphasis on being business oriented, instead being a slow paced, desert resort oasis where everybody moves here for retirement, or because it's sunnier & cheaper.
South of the Union Pacific RR tracks which run along the Harrison St grid (400 south), population density falls off big time due to large industrial areas and a bunch of undeveloped land and that would drop the overall density
Isn't this how Phoenix stands out compared to other big cities in similar regard? If Phoenix wants to be like LA, Dallas, and Seattle then it's no different from other urban areas. Won't this further the gap bigger with the haves and have nots, basically widening the gap from the rich and poor?
Yes, it does stand out compared to other large metro areas, and it's not necessarily a good thing. Many people who have never been here automatically ASSume Phoenix is some small desert city with the landscape being nothing but sand, rocks, cactus, and snakes, which isn't true at all. Unfortunately, I think we are a lot to blame for this image. We focus too much on promoting the desert, the sun, retirement, and cheaper living instead of the important things that should make up a large city (jobs, money, culture, etc).
I don't really want Phoenix to be like New York, L.A., or Chicago, but I wouldn't mind at all if it became more like Houston or Dallas ... which are very business oriented cities where lots of high paying competitive jobs can be found. Dallas and Houston are also not expensive places to live compared to NYC, L.A., or Chicago. In fact, Texas has no state income tax, which has a positive economic impact. Phoenix would do very well to strive to be like the large Texas cities, instead of trying to copy what L.A./southern CA does.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,590 posts, read 14,735,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
Yes, it does stand out compared to other large metro areas, and it's not necessarily a good thing. Many people who have never been here automatically ASSume Phoenix is some small desert city with the landscape being nothing but sand, rocks, cactus, and snakes, which isn't true at all. Unfortunately, I think we are a lot to blame for this image. We focus too much on promoting the desert, the sun, retirement, and cheaper living instead of the important things that should make up a large city (jobs, money, culture, etc).
I don't really want Phoenix to be like New York, L.A., or Chicago, but I wouldn't mind at all if it became more like Houston or Dallas ... which are very business oriented cities where lots of high paying competitive jobs can be found. Dallas and Houston are also not expensive places to live compared to NYC, L.A., or Chicago. In fact, Texas has no state income tax, which has a positive economic impact. Phoenix would do very well to strive to be like the large Texas cities, instead of trying to copy what L.A./southern CA does.
Texas has high property taxes and has toll roads which most people hate. Even members of Texas's legislature are drafting bills to try to convert the toll roads to free roads. That's how unpopular they are
Yes, it does stand out compared to other large metro areas, and it's not necessarily a good thing. Many people who have never been here automatically ASSume Phoenix is some small desert city with the landscape being nothing but sand, rocks, cactus, and snakes, which isn't true at all. Unfortunately, I think we are a lot to blame for this image. We focus too much on promoting the desert, the sun, retirement, and cheaper living instead of the important things that should make up a large city (jobs, money, culture, etc).
I don't really want Phoenix to be like New York, L.A., or Chicago, but I wouldn't mind at all if it became more like Houston or Dallas ... which are very business oriented cities where lots of high paying competitive jobs can be found. Dallas and Houston are also not expensive places to live compared to NYC, L.A., or Chicago. In fact, Texas has no state income tax, which has a positive economic impact. Phoenix would do very well to strive to be like the large Texas cities, instead of trying to copy what L.A./southern CA does.
I wholeheartedly agree with Phoenix continuing to focus on jobs and the economy but I disagree that were viewed as a quiet retirement town by anyone educated and at least somewhat traveled.
Your assessment of Phoenix, as a native, is actually interesting to me. Saying we aren't trying to be like LA or Chicago but more like Houston or Dallas? Houston and Dallas are both powerhouse towns for business, they rank number #3 and #4 nationally, both ahead of places like LA, San Fran, Seattle, Philly, Atlanta, Minneapolis etc. Striving to be better is great but assuming were going to jump ahead of everyone between us and #3 and #4 is pretty damn ambitious.
This brings me to another understanding, long time residents seem to have this view that Phoenix is doing so poorly and everywhere else is so much better. I know it's easy to get the "grass is always greener" feeling but trust me, it's not all good everywhere else. Houston is suffering some pretty massive economic challenges right now with the oil price collapse, it's economy is a powerhouse but it is very focused on energy, so any challenges in that sector mean rough times for Houston.
On the other hand, Phoenix actually packs a decent punch. Compare us to San Diego for example, quite a bit more economic activity here then there, despite SD being in a really nice location weather wise. We have 15 Fortune 1000's, it was 16 before Petsmart went private for restructuing. ithis puts us around the same levels as Seattle, Denver, Miami, Charlotte, St. Louis, Cleveland, and so on. Are these cities you'd also consider quiet with not much of an economy?
Like I said, I'm all for Phoenix growing and becoming more competitive, I constantly vote for candidates that have this vision in mind. But I'm also happy to call the valley home and refuse to cut short our accomplishments despite being one of the youngest large MSA's in the country.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
A few ASU awards and rankings:
#1 in the U.S. for innovation
Top 10 in the U.S. for employ-ability
#1 public university chosen by international students
#5 in the nation for producing the best-qualified graduates
#15 executive education in the world
You can throw every statistic you want at me (many of those you chose being irrelevant in this case), but it doesn't change the fact that many people moving here aren't really that motivated in life. How often do you read on this forum people wanting to move for intellectual and cultural stimulation, wanting to make it big, desiring the creative energy and brisk pace, etc.? You don't. Ever. Pretty much every new post is "I'm tired of the cold" and/or "it's too expensive where I live". I think you have a knee-jerk reaction to a lot of news (hence the articles you posted and your fanfare for bragging rights of being a place with more people). A lot of issues in Phoenix are building up, yet are latent at this time, including population growth and the general demographic of newcomers, and depending on how much longer you have left in the world, you'll probably see them hit full force in the future.
Phoenix is going to be easier to build wealth when it's cheap. That's just common sense. And as to young professionals, the mayor even stated the city needs to focus on citizen retention, specifically people being educated here who want to leave. You also did a wonderful job of posting fluff pieces (as I've stated before, lists are marketing techniques to hook people into reading), some of which are a few years old. I don't know how companies moving here suddenly means people in Phoenix are a motivated, ambitious bunch. From what I've heard, this attribute could be applied to a lot of cities in Florida, yet jobs still open up there. I work for a Fortune 500 company and the pay could be better, but opportunities within the company aren't great.
You can throw every statistic you want at me (many of those you chose being irrelevant in this case), but it doesn't change the fact that many people moving here aren't really that motivated in life. How often do you read on this forum people wanting to move for intellectual and cultural stimulation, wanting to make it big, desiring the creative energy and brisk pace, etc.? You don't. Ever. Pretty much every new post is "I'm tired of the cold" and/or "it's too expensive where I live". I think you have a knee-jerk reaction to a lot of news (hence the articles you posted and your fanfare for bragging rights of being a place with more people). A lot of issues in Phoenix are building up, yet are latent at this time, including population growth and the general demographic of newcomers, and depending on how much longer you have left in the world, you'll probably see them hit full force in the future.
Phoenix is going to be easier to build wealth when it's cheap. That's just common sense. And as to young professionals, the mayor even stated the city needs to focus on citizen retention, specifically people being educated here who want to leave. You also did a wonderful job of posting fluff pieces (as I've stated before, lists are marketing techniques to hook people into reading), some of which are a few years old. I don't know how companies moving here suddenly means people in Phoenix are a motivated, ambitious bunch. From what I've heard, this attribute could be applied to a lot of cities in Florida, yet jobs still open up there. I work for a Fortune 500 company and the pay could be better, but opportunities within the company aren't great.
I posted articles with facts about jobs moving here that include quotes from decision makers speaking to the employee base of the valley, specifically silicon valley employers that were overly joyed about how great it was to have employees in Phoenix who wanted to stay the course instead of jump to the next big startup as is the norm in places like silicon valley.
I also provided examples from my 12 years in the valley working, attending school and volunteering alongside many great mentors and acquaintances. You provided a very narrow opinion with the only data point being the less then 0.5% of the valley population who happens to post on here.
The Mayor of Phoenix should be doing more as should every other mayor in every other city. And you can't build wealth without decent job opportunities, otherwise we'd all be in the deep south.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,590 posts, read 14,735,369 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
I wholeheartedly agree with Phoenix continuing to focus on jobs and the economy but I disagree that were viewed as a quiet retirement town by anyone educated and at least somewhat traveled.
Your assessment of Phoenix, as a native, is actually interesting to me. Saying we aren't trying to be like LA or Chicago but more like Houston or Dallas? Houston and Dallas are both powerhouse towns for business, they rank number #3 and #4 nationally, both ahead of places like LA, San Fran, Seattle, Philly, Atlanta, Minneapolis etc. Striving to be better is great but assuming were going to jump ahead of everyone between us and #3 and #4 is pretty damn ambitious.
This brings me to another understanding, long time residents seem to have this view that Phoenix is doing so poorly and everywhere else is so much better. I know it's easy to get the "grass is always greener" feeling but trust me, it's not all good everywhere else. Houston is suffering some pretty massive economic challenges right now with the oil price collapse, it's economy is a powerhouse but it is very focused on energy, so any challenges in that sector mean rough times for Houston.
On the other hand, Phoenix actually packs a decent punch. Compare us to San Diego for example, quite a bit more economic activity here then there, despite SD being in a really nice location weather wise. We have 15 Fortune 1000's, it was 16 before Petsmart went private for restructuing. ithis puts us around the same levels as Seattle, Denver, Miami, Charlotte, St. Louis, Cleveland, and so on. Are these cities you'd also consider quiet with not much of an economy?
Like I said, I'm all for Phoenix growing and becoming more competitive, I constantly vote for candidates that have this vision in mind. But I'm also happy to call the valley home and refuse to cut short our accomplishments despite being one of the youngest large MSA's in the country.
I'm surprised you didn't list Knight Transportation, I thought they were a Fortune 500
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