Let's talk driving: Roundabouts and left/right turning... (Phoenix: legal, move)

[HX_Guy]

I saw a few people saying they avoid the roundabouts at I-17 & Happy Valley Rd and I'm curious what people dislike them.

I personally like them and wish more intersections were setup this way. The traffic flows quick through them, it's very rare that I'm stopped for more then a few seconds and usually not at all. They work much better then a standard stop light intersection.

I do wish people knew how to navigate them a little better though...as in planned a head a little bit. One thing I've noticed people do is go into the roundabout on the inside lane, then when their exit comes up, they try to make the exit from the same lane. You're supposed to be in the outer lane when you come to your exit. Someone almost ran into me earlier today because they were driving the inside lane, I figured they were continuing around the circle, so I merged into the outer circle...just as they shot from the inner circle toward the exit. If she would have planned ahead, she would have been in the outer lane and I wouldn't have merged.

Sounds confusing, doesn't it?

I guess I have too high expectation on people's driving...or maybe I'm in the wrong?

Another example of sort of the same thing is when I'm making a right hand turn at a regular intersection (not roundabout) and people are making a left going the same direction I'm turning toward. From my understanding, when you make a left, you're supposed to turn into the left most lane. So let's say there are 3 eastbound lanes...the left lane being #1, the middle #2, and the right #3.
The way I understand it, people making a left should continue onto the #1 lane. I, trying to make a right turn, should be able to turn into the #3 lane and everything should move along smoothly.

It never seems to happen this way...either people making the left turn go into #2 or #3, or they honk at me for turning at the same time into my #3 lane, or people in front of me sit there until everyone making a left is finished...when in fact I think they should be able to make their turn.

Correct me if I'm wrong here...

[hg_emily]

LOL! I agree with your reasoning 100%! It makes me giggle (after I have flipped a finger) at those who honk at me when THEY are doing something wrong. Like if I'm honked at on a "no turn on red" stoplight.

[Garson]

Mr. HX I agree with you completely....but I can understand people having a hard time with the roundabouts since they rarely even know what to do at a four way stop sign!

[TurcoLoco]

If the traffic at the opposite direction have the green left turn ARROW and you are making a right turn on a red light, imho, they have right-of-way and can use any lane they want and you should YIELD....

I could be wrong but that seems logical to me, I am sure somehow like AJ661 who has the facts will chime in.

[aj661]

Let me see if I got this straight:

(I was driving)... (happy as can be) until, (the other yo-yo) who or (was probably texting or asleep at the wheel)- !!! (turned into my lane and tried to kill me)
So I (yelled/honked/cranked off a warning shot) at (the other yo-yo) who [ /] (stopped picking his/her nose) and !!! (saw me just in time)
: "" ! and ""!!! (I expressed my disappointment with the other yo-yo's driving in a universally understood form of communication)

(the other yo-yo) (looking hurt and confused), gave me a "" and a "." (sheepish grin and mouthed "sorry")
: " (I continued expressing my displeasure) and thought ! (I ought to kick that yo-yo's butt)... but then, ! (the proverbial light bulb came on) and (I was embarrassed because I remembered that I'm a pacifist/violence never solved anything/what if the other yo-yo is armed and a better shot?) and besides, (the world would be so much better if we could all just learn to get along).

NOT!
Sooo, [/] (I stopped driving), (got a cup of coffee) and ... (chilled out for awhile). (I drove off, feeling happy once again).

[aj661]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

I guess I have too high expectation on people's driving...or maybe I'm in the wrong?

Another example of sort of the same thing is when I'm making a right hand turn at a regular intersection (not roundabout) and people are making a left going the same direction I'm turning toward. From my understanding, when you make a left, you're supposed to turn into the left most lane. So let's say there are 3 eastbound lanes...the left lane being #1, the middle #2, and the right #3.
The way I understand it, people making a left should continue onto the #1 lane. I, trying to make a right turn, should be able to turn into the #3 lane and everything should move along smoothly.

It never seems to happen this way...either people making the left turn go into #2 or #3, or they honk at me for turning at the same time into my #3 lane, or people in front of me sit there until everyone making a left is finished...when in fact I think they should be able to make their turn.

Correct me if I'm wrong here...

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

If the traffic at the opposite direction have the green left turn ARROW and you are making a right turn on a red light, imho, they have right-of-way and can use any lane they want and you should YIELD....

I could be wrong but that seems logical to me, I am sure somehow like AJ661 who has the facts will chime in.

Technically you're both right. And wrong. Turns at intersections: Left turns are supposed to be made from the left-most lane into the left-most lane - #1 lane to #1 lane. Right turns are supposed to be made from the right-most lane into the right-most lane - #3 lane to #3 lane. IF there are two left turn lanes OR two right turn lanes, the same rule applies - #2 lane to #2 lane for example. You may have noticed some places have the white dashed lines painted on the roadway to help drivers stay in the correct lane. See ARS 28-751.1 and 28-751.2 http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...28&DocType=ARS

The car with the green light does have the right of way, even though it should not matter if everyone is making a legal turn. The problem is (actually there's more than one) the majority of people don't make legal turns either because they don't know or don't care. OR even if they do know they still don't care because they're going to be making a right turn into that gas station on the corner as soon as they finish their left turn. The bottom line is the vehicle making a legal right turn on red must yield to traffic with a green light/green arrow. See ARS 28-645A3b http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...28&DocType=ARS

Worst case both drivers could -and should- be cited for their respective violations if there is a collision.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by aj661

The problem is ... the majority of people don't make legal turns either because they don't know or don't care. OR even if they do know they still don't care because they're going to be making a right turn into that gas station on the corner as soon as they finish their left turn.

Even worse, there are lots of people who both don't know and don't care, and couldn't be bothered to learn it. And as you said about the guy going to the gas station, there are people who know perfectly well, but just decide to do what they want to do and screw the motor vehicle code and screw anybody who doesn't like it: "It's my car and my gasoline and I'll drive any way I damned want, and if you don't like it, get off the sidewalk!"

Then there's the people who turn right into two lanes, but instead of turning from right lane to right lane, they turn from right lane and swing wide into left lane, in spite of that being an illegal turn. I'm wondering if actually more people complete their right turn into the left lane than the legal turners.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

I saw a few people saying they avoid the roundabouts at I-17 & Happy Valley Rd and I'm curious what people dislike them.

I personally like them and wish more intersections were setup this way. The traffic flows quick through them, it's very rare that I'm stopped for more then a few seconds and usually not at all. They work much better then a standard stop light intersection.

I do wish people knew how to navigate them a little better though...as in planned a head a little bit. One thing I've noticed people do is go into the roundabout on the inside lane, then when their exit comes up, they try to make the exit from the same lane. You're supposed to be in the outer lane when you come to your exit. Someone almost ran into me earlier today because they were driving the inside lane, I figured they were continuing around the circle, so I merged into the outer circle...just as they shot from the inner circle toward the exit. If she would have planned ahead, she would have been in the outer lane and I wouldn't have merged.

Sounds confusing, doesn't it?

I don't get why they find it confusing... works the same way as any other outer lane. If you plan to turn into the business in the corner after making a left turn, you don't go to the inner lane... You have roundabouts in Phoenix now? I haven't noticed any before. AZ is pretty much roundabout-free.

About what aj said:

Technically you're both right. And wrong. Turns at intersections: Left turns are supposed to be made from the left-most lane into the left-most lane - #1 lane to #1 lane. Right turns are supposed to be made from the right-most lane into the right-most lane - #3 lane to #3 lane. IF there are two left turn lanes OR two right turn lanes, the same rule applies - #2 lane to #2 lane for example. You may have noticed some places have the white dashed lines painted on the roadway to help drivers stay in the correct lane. See ARS 28-751.1 and 28-751.2 http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...28&DocType=ARS (broken link)

I didn't know about this rule until somewhat recently, but to tell you the truth... couldn't care less. Never heard of anybody getting a ticket for not complying to that. Of course, I'm talking about a single turning lane. The only accident I've been involved in happened when I started making a right from the outer turning lane while the idiot next to me in the INNER turning lane decided to proceed straight! I never did like using this lane. Whatever possessed me to be there that day...

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by sierraAZ

I don't get why they find it confusing... works the same way as any other outer lane.

It's not confusing...I meant my explanation sounded confusing.

I didn't know about this rule until somewhat recently, but to tell you the truth... couldn't care less. Never heard of anybody getting a ticket for not complying to that.

...and there lies the problem. It's not always about if you get a ticket for it...but about driving the correct way because it affects other drivers around you who expect you to be driving by the rules so they can do what is correct in return.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

It's not always about if you get a ticket for it...but about driving the correct way because it affects other drivers around you who expect you to be driving by the rules so they can do what is correct in return.

If I make a right, from a single turning lane, on my green, it affects nobody (assuming no people cross the intersection) and I turn as I please. Same if I turn left on my arrow, again from a single turning lane. Please let me know how it affects anybody...