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Yes, it's a pretty radical idea, but at least it brings about ideas, nothing wrong with that. The problem I see is that these homeless people need the city. The city is where their resources are, however small. They need the drugs. They need the handouts from panhandling. They need the dumpsters to forage for food. As much as you and I dislike it, the homeless need the city to survive.
What if the basic needs are provided? Just like in jail/prison. Three meals daily. Access to showers and involuntary rehab for their drug/alcohol issues. If criminals in jails and prisons can be kept away from society and taken care of ( and in most cases have a better life than the average homeless person on the street) then why not?
We as a society already pay taxes for a multitude of programs geared towards the less fortunate so it's not like we lack funding for such a program.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. If my doc got me hooked on opioids, I'd go back to my doc and ask him to safely get me off. I can't think of any scenario where I would hit the streets in search of heroin, and then shoot it up - I would have no clue how to do that and I think you need supplies. I would NEVER do that on my own and then blame a doctor. That's a weak argument.
Ok, don't buy it but it's true. I literally have two family members in which that exact same thing happened. You never heard of people doctor shopping? Going from doctor to doctor trying to get more prescriptions. You must live in a bubble.
1. Some people should never have been born, for many reasons
2. Those same people should not reproduce, yet they do.
3. If they couldn't function, they were segregated from society. Perhaps it wasn't humane by today's standards. Oh, well.
4. Mental hospitals were one place where they were put, also prison
5. Right to choose also helped
6. Mental hospitals & right to choose are gone. Law enforcement is diminished. People are free now to go where they want, when they want, do what they want with few consequences. Many of these people were born with diminished mental capacity, & grew up with no moral compass, work ethic, were no doubt preyed on & learned to prey on others. They don't even know to get up, do basic hygiene, they have no skills. But they should go to a job, not prey on others, keep themselves clean, make a home other than a tent on a sidewalk or in a ravine. They don't have the capacity. In the past they would have been segregated from society & decisions made for them.
In the animal kingdom, it's survival of the fittest. It isn't pretty, but it's how it works. Homo sapiens are also animals. This is the result. My previous post was trying to explain that the fear that my abusive female parent instilled in me was what kept me literally out of the gutter. I think a lot of homo sapiens out there just don't care, or have the skills, to stay out of the gutter. They used to be locked up. Now they are out there among us all.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. If my doc got me hooked on opioids, I'd go back to my doc and ask him to safely get me off. I can't think of any scenario where I would hit the streets in search of heroin, and then shoot it up - I would have no clue how to do that and I think you need supplies. I would NEVER do that on my own and then blame a doctor. That's a weak argument.
OMG PLEASE go watch "DopeSick". I think it is still on Netflix. Lays out the opioid crisis in detail from both sides. I get that you don't have the mind of an addict or ever been addicted to a heavy drug but that movie should open your eyes. Heavily based on real stories and experiences.
For what it's worth, I think CD would be a hard place to find anyone who is/has been homeless. The people you want to ask are in service jobs or working low wage jobs. CD people seem to all be of the kind who have done well for themselves.
I was homeless from 1989 to 1995. I had been renting a small house with a yard in San Jose and working for BofA. BofA was going through some real changes. They made all of us tellers hourly instead of salaried and then cut our hours from 40 to 20. I knew I needed to do something, so I decided to learn court reporting at the local community college. Many of the classes were day classes only and the bank would do nothing to work around my schooling, so I quit and started working at the local 7-11 for $5.50 an hour. At the same time, my landlord was going to raise the rent higher than he ever had before. This was when rents just started going sky high in California.
So I first moved into a camper and was feeding the owners' horses in exchange for living there. Then they got divorced and I was in my truck for the next 6 years. Court reporting was the only four year certified course offered at the college - the rest were all two years certifications. Leave it to me to pick that one. To take the state test, which is given at 200 wpm, the school wanted you doing 220 wpm. I had just passed my 180 wpm classes when the community colleges all started charging tuition in addition to raising rates on everything else. I was making $8 an hour at that time, but I couldn't afford to go back to college and finish.
So I spent another year or so in my truck trying to get things together again. I eventually rented a room from a friend and then rented a trailer on a horse boarding stable. That lasted for four years until that landlord doubled the rent. So I ended up in Washington state where I could transfer my job (I was now working for Kinko's at $10/hr and eventually went to $12/hr).
I was commuting to Seattle and quit to work at a bank on this side of the water. Then, in 2008, the bank got bought out. I managed to keep going until unemployment ran out and at that point, I went back to Minnesota to live with my mom. Bad, bad choice but the only one I had. I stayed there 9 months then came back to Washington state and lived in my car for a couple of months while I waited to see if I could get into subsidized housing. This was impossible to do in San Jose - I had been told there my wait time would probably be 10 years.
But I got into a SRO unit after only 3 months and then ended up applying for disability after a fall I had in 2009 finally started to limit my mobility. I was there until my case was approved and then had to wait for the back pay.
I don't really drink unless I go out to eat with a friend and I usually choose a non-alcoholic margarita then. I've never done drugs and I've never smoked. I worked while I was homeless except when I was in my car after coming back from Minnesota and I was looking for sit down work all during that time at the local resource center.
I don't know if I'm an outlier or not. I've run into numerous people when I worked at 7-11 and Kinko's, coworkers and customers, who had been homeless and were not drug addicted (they probably smoked weed, though) or alcoholics. Most of them were like me - just priced out of the rental market and living rough until they could find a friend or a relative to crash with or get together enough cash and some roommates to rent again. So I don't know what to tell you, OP.
People here on CD will tell you the homeless are all on drugs or they're alcoholics. Those are usually the people in tents or sleeping in the woods with sleeping bags. The ones who are living in vehicles and campers (the shadow people) are either older people living on social security or people who are working but still can't afford to rent anything. Add to that, the landlords now want you working a job that pays three times your rent, first, last, and security, and a decent credit score before they'll rent to anyone and you can see why it's so hard to rent anything, even if you can afford the monthly rents.
Are the homeless mentally ill? I don't know. I suggest everyone on CD spend a month on the streets and tell me how sane they'd be after doing that. I know I struggle with depression, so yeah, you could say I'm mentally ill as well. A lot of people on CD think anyone can waltz into a business and instantly start working so if someone can't, they must be sick in the head. But I know how hard it is to get a job when you don't have clean clothes, reliable transportation, and an address. So if someone is homeless and does drugs or drinks, I'm not going to condemn them for it. I can understand why they'd do that. What I can't understand is how many Americans drink and do drugs in the safety of their houses and apartments and think that's fine, but then think it's a moral failing when someone who can't afford to buy or rent four walls around them does the exact same thing.
And no, I don't know what the answer is. I do know we haven't even started seeing the worst of the homeless problems yet. You guys think it's bad now, but you haven't seen anything yet. People will not roll over and willingly die just because they can't afford to find housing. Expect things to get much worse in the future.
Last edited by rodentraiser; 03-25-2024 at 11:43 PM..
Reason: cat walked across my keyboard and I had to restart typing
What if the basic needs are provided? Just like in jail/prison. Three meals daily. Access to showers and involuntary rehab for their drug/alcohol issues. If criminals in jails and prisons can be kept away from society and taken care of ( and in most cases have a better life than the average homeless person on the street) then why not?
We as a society already pay taxes for a multitude of programs geared towards the less fortunate so it's not like we lack funding for such a program.
If it's "just like in jail/prison," then you are effectively imprisoning people. To do that in a way that respects the constitution, you'd have either make homelessness a crime or have more involuntary commitments for the mentally ill. I cautiously support the latter, but the former is a slippery slope. If the idea is to criminalize homelessness, how do you do that in a way that doesn't catch a lot of innocent people and wrongfully incarcerate them? You can ban overnight camping, but what do you do about the shabby looking person resting on a park bench for an hour or two? If someone is employed but living in their car due to a loss of housing, does it do anyone any good to take that person out of the work force? Talk of establishing big camps outside cities is a political gimmick, and like most gimmicks, it's not well thought out or vetted for legality.
For what it's worth, I think CD would be a hard place to find anyone who is/has been homeless. The people you want to ask are in service jobs or working low wage jobs. CD people seem to all be of the kind who have done well for themselves.
I was homeless from 1989 to 1995. I had been renting a small house with a yard in San Jose and working for BofA. BofA was going through some real changes. They made all of us tellers hourly instead of salaried and then cut our hours from 40 to 20. I knew I needed to do something, so I decided to learn court reporting at the local community college. Many of the classes were day classes only and the bank would do nothing to work around my schooling, so I quit and started working at the local 7-11 for $5.50 an hour. At the same time, my landlord was going to raise the rent higher than he ever had before. This was when rents just started going sky high in California.
So I first moved into a camper and was feeding the owners' horses in exchange for living there. Then they got divorced and I was in my truck for the next 6 years. Court reporting was the only four year certified course offered at the college - the rest were all two years certifications. Leave it to me to pick that one. To take the state test, which is given at 200 wpm, the school wanted you doing 220 wpm. I had just passed my 180 wpm classes when the community colleges all started charging tuition in addition to raising rates on everything else. I was making $8 an hour at that time, but I couldn't afford to go back to college and finish.
So I spent another year or so in my truck trying to get things together again. I eventually rented a room from a friend and then rented a trailer on a horse boarding stable. That lasted for four years until that landlord doubled the rent. So I ended up in Washington state where I could transfer my job (I was now working for Kinko's at $10/hr and eventually went to $12/hr).
I was commuting to Seattle and quit to work at a bank on this side of the water. Then, in 2008, the bank got bought out. I managed to keep going until unemployment ran out and at that point, I went back to Minnesota to live with my mom. Bad, bad choice but the only one I had. I stayed there 9 months then came back to Washington state and lived in my car for a couple of months while I waited to see if I could get into subsidized housing. This was impossible to do in San Jose - I had been told there my wait time would probably be 10 years.
But I got into a SRO unit after only 3 months and then ended up applying for disability after a fall I had in 2009 finally started to limit my mobility. I was there until my case was approved and then had to wait for the back pay.
I don't really drink unless I go out to eat with a friend and I usually choose a non-alcoholic margarita then. I've never done drugs and I've never smoked. I worked while I was homeless except when I was in my car after coming back from Minnesota and I was looking for sit down work all during that time at the local resource center.
I don't know if I'm an outlier or not. I've run into numerous people when I worked at 7-11 and Kinko's, coworkers and customers, who had been homeless and were not drug addicted (they probably smoked weed, though) or alcoholics. Most of them were like me - just priced out of the rental market and living rough until they could find a friend or a relative to crash with or get together enough cash and some roommates to rent again. So I don't know what to tell you, OP.
People here on CD will tell you the homeless are all on drugs or they're alcoholics. Those are usually the people in tents or sleeping in the woods with sleeping bags. The ones who are living in vehicles and campers (the shadow people) are either older people living on social security or people who are working but still can't afford to rent anything. Add to that, the landlords now want you working a job that pays three times your rent, first, last, and security, and a decent credit score before they'll rent to anyone and you can see why it's so hard to rent anything, even if you can afford the monthly rents.
Are the homeless mentally ill? I don't know. I suggest everyone on CD spend a month on the streets and tell me how sane they'd be after doing that. I know I struggle with depression, so yeah, you could say I'm mentally ill as well. A lot of people on CD think anyone can waltz into a business and instantly start working so if someone can't, they must be sick in the head. But I know how hard it is to get a job when you don't have clean clothes, reliable transportation, and an address. So if someone is homeless and does drugs or drinks, I'm not going to condemn them for it. I can understand why they'd do that. What I can't understand is how many Americans drink and do drugs in the safety of their houses and apartments and think that's fine, but then think it's a moral failing when someone who can't afford to buy or rent four walls around them does the exact same thing.
And no, I don't know what the answer is. I do know we haven't even started seeing the worst of the homeless problems yet. You guys think it's bad now, but you haven't seen anything yet. People will not roll over and willingly die just because they can't afford to find housing. Expect things to get much worse in the future.
Thank you for sharing your story. Very inspirational.
Only one person in the history of my family has ever been homeless, and he was homeless for five years.
He was also an alcoholic.
His brother was a multi-millionaire (both have long since died), and was willing to help him, but he wouldn't take any money from his brother.
Eventually the VA helped him (he was a combat vet).
My SILs son fell into this group. He was an alcoholic. He was not a great guy. People did try to help him and take him in, but he burned so bridges that he ended up homeless.
I agree that in a lot of the "homeless" population is based on an unstable upbringing.
Whether it was parents who abused them, neglected them or were addicts themselves.
As for drugs... you have to be kidding me right?
Sure some of them were addicted to drugs before they were homeless, but some of them got addicted BECAUSE they were homeless.
If you lived on the streets for months, years... nothing is good, so reverting to drugs or alcohol is pretty much almost the only solution. To get those temporary reprieves from such a horrible existence through chemical means.
I have spoken to quite a few homeless people (the ones that were not ranting or seem dangerous). They ALL seem a bit "off" mentally. Whether that is how they were born, or just how they are after living on the streets for so long.
If you ever get a chance, speak to a homeless person. You'd be surprised how "average" they are. They could easily be your friend from high school, or your brother or sister.
Your last two paragraphs seem a bit contradictory. They seem average/normal, but they're all a little off? In a way I guess I could grant you this, given that I do in fact find the average non-homeless person to be a bit off, heh.
For what it's worth, just yesterday at the Syracuse bus station, I talked to a guy who'd been living on the streets for the past month or two. Catholic Charities hooked him up with a bus ticket to his hometown of Pittsburgh, and I was trying to encourage him in his move back to that familiar place. The route he was going to take was ridiculous, as he was going from Syracuse to Newark NJ to Pittsburgh, but even as I questioned the circuitousness of that route, I tried not to be too negative, as this dude had assuredly had it quite rough of late. Then we spent a few minutes talking about the Steelers' recent acquisitions of Russell Wilson and Justin Fields. Nice guy, but he definitely seemed weirdly intense and perhaps potentially volatile. I like talking to people on the street, but you do also have to he careful.
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