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Most of your replies echo what I have heard before. We are both born and raised in California the demographics as you know, are very different than Oregon. I feel like my concern is valid, especially for our child. With that said, I look forward to our move. It is unsettling to read that it's not so much overt racism but a very passive , let us keep our part of the country white....type of passive attitude as a previous poster mentioned. But it is what it is here in the United States 2015. At the end of all that, I see fear of change and just simply the unfamiliar. That in itself is not necessarily terrible but how people choose to react to that unfamiliarity I suppose.
Thank you for your words, I appreciate it.
I'm from California too and more diversity doesn't mean less racism. I saw and heard more racism in San Francisco than here. But as others have said, people are more passive here about it. However, I think the biggest problem is institutional racism not daily race relations. I think assuming that everyone is racist and that you're going to have a problem is incorrect. What people are assuming is that because the population is whiter it's therefore more racist, which isn't exactly true. Again, growing up in SF there was more racism because of the diversity--this group had problems with that group, etc. Moving here expecting you're going to have problems is incorrect and actually assuming you'll have problems means you probably will as you'll be looking for it and assuming it. Example--my ex, who was not white, was convinced when we were in a store in outer SE that everyone was staring at him because he wasn't white. People were staring at him because he was wearing a ridiculous (seriously) outfit. Friends of ours who also weren't white and were with us let him go on and on for a bit before telling him--look at what you're freaking wearing! It wasn't racial. But he was certain it was because he was convinced it was going to happen.
Here I can go days without seeing a black person. I live in inner Portland. I do see more Thai, Vietnamese, Japanese, and Chinese people. I believe the city is quite segregated and that many non-white people are being displaced by the changes taking place in the city. I have friends who teach in the public schools who tell me their school is 90% Latino, for example. A quick look at school data online shows these schools are failing and stricken with poverty and violence. Meanwhile schools a mile or so away are serving a primarily white population and are good to great schools. So yes, there ARE diverse communities here but they are not integrated into the Portlandia version of Portland in many instances.
I have had black acquaintances tell me they are uncomfortable in Eastmoreland because they are treated as if they don't belong there and are viewed with suspicion. Again, this is anecdotal and not a first person account so take it for what it is.
Velouria, I read your post last week and thought about it, and over the weekend decided to make a mental note of black people I see around where I live. I'm white, and live near Washington Square Mall, so definitely not one of the inner or trendy Portland neighborhoods you mention in your post. This area is mostly white, but lots of Latinos and Asians around as well. I think it's a pretty good mix of income levels too, unlike a lot of the inner Portland neighborhoods which people are priced out of.
In my normal weekend errands (grocery store, Costco, etc.) I saw no fewer than a dozen black people over the weekend. Driving, walking baby strollers down Scholls Ferry Rd., in the stores, at a park. Black men, women, teenagers, kids.
The segregation that you speak of in your post is definitely a City of Portland thing. I just don't see it in my suburb.
Velouria, I read your post last week and thought about it, and over the weekend decided to make a mental note of black people I see around where I live. I'm white, and live near Washington Square Mall, so definitely not one of the inner or trendy Portland neighborhoods you mention in your post. This area is mostly white, but lots of Latinos and Asians around as well. I think it's a pretty good mix of income levels too, unlike a lot of the inner Portland neighborhoods which people are priced out of.
In my normal weekend errands (grocery store, Costco, etc.) I saw no fewer than a dozen black people over the weekend. Driving, walking baby strollers down Scholls Ferry Rd., in the stores, at a park. Black men, women, teenagers, kids.
The segregation that you speak of in your post is definitely a City of Portland thing. I just don't see it in my suburb.
There are more African Americans in mixed race areas in the WA County burbs IMO. Portland is pretty segregated. Walk around any inner quadrant core neighborhod and see for yourself. It's kind of strange but yes, I notice way more diversity at the mall you speak of.
There's just something about malls. When I lived in Royal Oak, MI which is a very white suburb of Detroit, I never saw black people at all, until I went to a mall. Any mall. In white suburbs of Portland you will not see black people unless you go to a mall. Any mall. Even in Lloyd Center in NE Portland, the supposed black area of the city, the black people are mainly congregated in and around the mall itself.
On my street just seven blocks east of the mall I have never seen a black person walking by my home. Just wanted to point this out because it is natural to want to use a commercial feature of a neighborhood, like a mall to make conclusions about its diversity. It is also natural to want to use the behavior of shoppers and store staff in a mall as indicative of the social climate in the surrounding residential area but that would be wrong to do. Shoppers are in a mall to get their shop on, and retail personnel who want to keep their jobs will make a (mandated) effort to be polite and helpful to all shoppers regardless of race. All bets are off on the residential side streets and small business concerns.
Few white people can actually say with any authority exactly how blacks are treated day to day by the majority of white people that they might encounter. It isn't something white people share with each other very readily. As a matter of fact I was pretty shocked at how violent the reaction from my family was to the first white woman I ever dated. Until then I had been led to believe that they were without any racial prejudice. They all but encouraged me to date anyone I wanted to. Until I actually did.
I am wondering why no one has pointed out to the o.p. the fact that whatever racism they might experience in Portland will depend in large part on what race they are. Which as far as I can tell has not been revealed in the discussion. How can any assurances be given, any determinations made, etc. without this crucial bit of information? Color me confused.
Velouria, I read your post last week and thought about it, and over the weekend decided to make a mental note of black people I see around where I live. I'm white, and live near Washington Square Mall, so definitely not one of the inner or trendy Portland neighborhoods you mention in your post. This area is mostly white, but lots of Latinos and Asians around as well. I think it's a pretty good mix of income levels too, unlike a lot of the inner Portland neighborhoods which people are priced out of.
In my normal weekend errands (grocery store, Costco, etc.) I saw no fewer than a dozen black people over the weekend. Driving, walking baby strollers down Scholls Ferry Rd., in the stores, at a park. Black men, women, teenagers, kids.
The segregation that you speak of in your post is definitely a City of Portland thing. I just don't see it in my suburb.
I've lived in NE Portland for almost 7 years now, and I don't think I've gone a day without seeing a black person on my bus or at the grocery store or walking down the street. This goes for living in both Elliot and Roseway neighborhoods(and while Elliot is known for having a historical black population, Roseway really isn't). My neighborhood has a bunch of of black families I've met along with a lot of Vietnamese and a lot of Hispanics just north of us in Cully. And if go to either the Lloyd Center or Clackamas Town Center--the two malls I'd probably ever shop at, I'll see black kids and families along with Hispanics and Asians and whites.
I think it's really the expensive inner SE neighborhoods that really feel very white on the Eastside, at least that's the sense I've always gotten. And that's because it's sort of the expensive cool areas that certain demographic of transplants and tourists flock to. I work downtown and I see a wide of people walking around for lunch on most days(many are Asian or foreign tourists these days though).
There's just something about malls. When I lived in Royal Oak, MI which is a very white suburb of Detroit, I never saw black people at all, until I went to a mall. Any mall. In white suburbs of Portland you will not see black people unless you go to a mall. Any mall. Even in Lloyd Center in NE Portland, the supposed black area of the city, the black people are mainly congregated in and around the mall itself.
On my street just seven blocks east of the mall I have never seen a black person walking by my home. Just wanted to point this out because it is natural to want to use a commercial feature of a neighborhood, like a mall to make conclusions about its diversity. It is also natural to want to use the behavior of shoppers and store staff in a mall as indicative of the social climate in the surrounding residential area but that would be wrong to do. Shoppers are in a mall to get their shop on, and retail personnel who want to keep their jobs will make a (mandated) effort to be polite and helpful to all shoppers regardless of race. All bets are off on the residential side streets and small business concerns.
Few white people can actually say with any authority exactly how blacks are treated day to day by the majority of white people that they might encounter. It isn't something white people share with each other very readily. As a matter of fact I was pretty shocked at how violent the reaction from my family was to the first white woman I ever dated. Until then I had been led to believe that they were without any racial prejudice. They all but encouraged me to date anyone I wanted to. Until I actually did.
I am wondering why no one has pointed out to the o.p. the fact that whatever racism they might experience in Portland will depend in large part on what race they are. Which as far as I can tell has not been revealed in the discussion. How can any assurances be given, any determinations made, etc. without this crucial bit of information? Color me confused.
Just to be clear, I never went to Washington Square over the weekend, so I didn't have that experience. The black people I saw were walking and driving along the residential streets in and around my neighborhood (south of the mall across Hwy 217) and in the Tigard Costco and the Whole Foods on Scholls Ferry. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but I'm not conducting a scientific study, I'm just responding to Velouria's post that s/he goes days without seeing any black people, so I decided to pay attention for two days. Maybe s/he doesn't leave the house, but my suspicion is that there are just more black people out here than there are in close-in neighborhoods like Hawthorne, Pearl, and Irvington.
On the other hand, there were a lot of people of all races out and about over the weekend because of the hot weather, so the number of people I saw on neighborhood walks with strollers and dogs and heading for the stores for cold beer and ice cream was certainly more than usual.
And to dive into your last question, I think the answer is that nobody on these boards wants to address the fact that minorities might be treated differently based on what race they are. That would be very un-Portland-like. And, speaking for myself as a white guy, I would not be an expert on how Latinos are treated vs. Asians vs. Middle Easterners vs. Blacks. I could guess because I have observations, but I would never put myself up as an expert on that topic.
What you are seeing is income -> housing cost related, not race related.
Which is exactly why I don't live in inner Portland! When I moved to Portland in 08 as the housing market was crashing, my family still couldn't afford to live there. I wanted to, because I worked in a building adjacent to Pioneer Courthouse Square and wanted to minimize my commute, but I'm not wealthy or handy enough for a fixer, and couldn't spend over $300k. So the 'burbs it was.
Just to be clear, I never went to Washington Square over the weekend, so I didn't have that experience. The black people I saw were walking and driving along the residential streets in and around my neighborhood (south of the mall across Hwy 217) and in the Tigard Costco and the Whole Foods on Scholls Ferry. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but I'm not conducting a scientific study, I'm just responding to Velouria's post that s/he goes days without seeing any black people, so I decided to pay attention for two days. Maybe s/he doesn't leave the house, but my suspicion is that there are just more black people out here than there are in close-in neighborhoods like Hawthorne, Pearl, and Irvington.
The western third of Irvington still has a lot of black people living there as the western border of the neighborhood is a block from MLK and the areas to the west and north are still home to a lot the community(even after gentrification). I lived just to the southeast of Irvington for several years previously. It's different than somewhere like the Hawthorne area.
I've seen a fairly diverse group in parts of Beaverton area myself too--though statistically according to Census Data, the City of Portland has three times the number of African-Americans as the entirety of Washington County.
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