Where is the bad traffic? (Portland, Beaverton: apartment, rent, neighborhoods)

[pluckytree]

Hello everyone! Or should I say Howdy? I hear that a lot on my visits.

So, I'm looking to move to the NE area of Portland and I'll work in the west suburbs off 26. I keep reading about how Portland is the 10th worst traffic in the country. However, I've visited several times and driven commute routes quite a few times. Except for 5-6 PM returning to the east side (50 minutes), the commute is usually around 25 mins which seems excellent.

So here are my questions. Is the route I chose just never bad? I drove all over NE and SE at all times of day and nothing seemed particularly bad. So, there just be bad traffic somewhere. Perhaps 5 or 405 going to Vancouver? Maybe 84?

I come from several places where rush hour goes at least one direction for at least 4 hours in the morning and 4 hours at night. Utter nightmare.

I would appreciate some opinions and facts.

Thanks!

Chris

[psichick]

I have a few co-worker that commutes from the eastside to Hillsboro (Orenco area). One lives in NE Portland and she works 8-4:30. Morning commute is 35-45 minutes. Evening commute is 60-90 minutes. The evening is always worse anywhere you go (starting around 3:30-4ish). But after talking to a few of them, this is about their norm.

The bad traffic is typically any bridge (you'd probably take St. Johns) and the 26 tunnel. Bad weather can turn either of these into a crazy mess, so I hope you have the ability to work from home, flex your hours, or something.

[texasdiver]

During any morning or evening rush hour, pull up the Portland metro area on google maps on your computer or phone and select "show traffic" in the menu and you will get a better idea of "where the traffic is" than anyone here can describe for you. You can try out random commutes across the metro area from any point A to point B to see the possible travel times and recommended routes during mornings and evenings. Save your likely starting point and destination on your phone and check the traffic and routing every day for the next couple of weeks during the morning and evening and see what the travel times are. Google maps is quite accurate for traffic in Portland.

This is a great way to investigate neighborhoods from afar. For example, If google maps tells you that it is 1:45 on average to drive from Hillsboro to Camas on an average weekday afternoon then that is probably a commute to avoid.

The route you are talking about is sort of a reverse commute. And it can be very bad. But usually worse in the opposite direction I think. But I have seen stop and go traffic for most of 26 in both directions on some bad days.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

If you are lucky enough to just have to "travel" in your "immediate" neighborhood, you are golden.

For instance, if you are medical, and work on pill hill, or Kaiser SunnySide and find an inexpensive apartment close by, you are golden.
But, the increase in rent would be enough to pay for the cost of having car and living in the inner east side.
You could probably get by on public transit, but if you are an independent sort and want to go where you want, when you want, it might be a bit of a irritant.
Especially if you have a family with a couple kids.

If you have to get across town, or live in Vancouver and work in Portland, or work on the west side and live on the east side, or vice versa, you are looking at least an hour each way, using "private" transport.
Public transport will triple your time at least.

Hate to say, there is no easy way to get around it.

You are going to have to make sacrifices either way, whether they be financial or otherwise.

You are NOT going to find everything you want unless you are very very very lucky.

[texasdiver]

Yes, it's the bottlenecks.

In a plains city like the Dallas Fort Worth area the freeway network is like a giant street grid superimposed over the whole metro area. So if you are going diagonal across the metro area you basically have 10 different possible freeway routes, basically like going around the block one way or the other. If there is a wreck you just zig zag over to the next freeway up or down.

Portland (like Seattle) has geographic bottlenecks in every direction that you can't avoid. Going north there are only 2 bridges over the Columbia. Period. It's 100 miles out of your way to Longview or Cascade Locks to the next alternative crossing. If you are going east-west to Beaverton and points west you only have one freeway, US-26. Otherwise you are on 2-lane surface streets winding across the west hills and there's only about 3 of those. Going south there is really only one crossing across the Willamette at Wilsonville which turns into a giant bottleneck you can't avoid. Going east your only alternative is I-84 or you are stuck on surface streets. Some like 30-bypass and Powell can move fairly decently when traffic is light. But when the freeways are congested, those are too because everyone has google maps and Waze.

So you basically just have to suck it up.

[pnwguy2]

NB any weekday afternoon on I-5 from Rose Quarter to the State line, where it miraculously clears up. Never got that.

SB on I-205 any weekday afternoon from usually the Banfield (I-84) to past Oregon City.

Any day on I-5 southbound from downtown to Wilsonville, usually afternoons.

Sunset Hwy (26) anyday when there is anyone driving in the morning sunshine EB or anyone driving in the afternoon sunshine WB.

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

NB any weekday afternoon on I-5 from Rose Quarter to the State line, where it miraculously clears up. Never got that.

SB on I-205 any weekday afternoon from usually the Banfield (I-84) to past Oregon City.

Any day on I-5 southbound from downtown to Wilsonville, usually afternoons.

Sunset Hwy (26) anyday when there is anyone driving in the morning sunshine EB or anyone driving in the afternoon sunshine WB.

The I-5 bridge is the bottleneck. Past that commuters start fanning out, taking WA-14, Mill Plain, and 4th Plain towards East Vancouver, SR-500 towards Orchards and Battle Ground, and if you count the very long turning lanes, much of I-5 north of the bridge is 4-lane compared to 2 and 3 lanes south of the bridge. By the time you get up to Salmon Creek probably 75% of the commuters have exited the freeway.

[pnwguy2]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

The I-5 bridge is the bottleneck. Past that commuters start fanning out, taking WA-14, Mill Plain, and 4th Plain towards East Vancouver, SR-500 towards Orchards and Battle Ground, and if you count the very long turning lanes, much of I-5 north of the bridge is 4-lane compared to 2 and 3 lanes south of the bridge. By the time you get up to Salmon Creek probably 75% of the commuters have exited the freeway.

Yes, I know this, but the OP was asking. The real problem is the State of Oregon and/or the City of Portland never allocated enough land to expand I-5 north of Rose Quarter for expansion. It remains a 3X3 freeway, and one of those lanes in each direction are restricted during peak times. May have worked in 1965, but hasn't since about 1975. I think Vancouver and SW Washington are the ultimate losers here.

I agree the freeway fans out, but also increases lanes in Washington as soon as you hit the State line. It continues to be a nightmare, and there are still major arguments about a new Interstate Bridge and how light rail will impact it. This may go on for decades, unfortunately.

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by pnwguy2

Yes, I know this, but the OP was asking. The real problem is the State of Oregon and/or the City of Portland never allocated enough land to expand I-5 north of Rose Quarter for expansion. It remains a 3X3 freeway, and one of those lanes in each direction are restricted during peak times. May have worked in 1965, but hasn't since about 1975. I think Vancouver and SW Washington are the ultimate losers here.

I agree the freeway fans out, but also increases lanes in Washington as soon as you hit the State line. It continues to be a nightmare, and there are still major arguments about a new Interstate Bridge and how light rail will impact it. This may go on for decades, unfortunately.

I honestly think that perversely, the worse the bridge traffic gets, the better the quality of live in Vancouver will be as more restaurants and retail and jobs decide to locate north of the Columbia. It will suck for all the long-distance commuters from Vancouver but for those of us who both live and work on the WA side? Honestly the restaurant scene in Vancouver and Camas is expanding rapidly. The new waterfront area is developing rapidly. And there is all kinds of commercial construction going up in East Vancouver. Hewitt Packard has announced plans for a massive new campus in the old gravel mine next to the East Vancouver Costco. Maybe when Vancouver finally grows up and stops thinking so much like a car suburb then we can talk about real transit solutions between Vancouver and Portland that don't involve "express" buses stuck in I-5 and I-205/84 traffic.

[pnwguy2]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

I honestly think that perversely, the worse the bridge traffic gets, the better the quality of live in Vancouver will be as more restaurants and retail and jobs decide to locate north of the Columbia. It will suck for all the long-distance commuters from Vancouver but for those of us who both live and work on the WA side? Honestly the restaurant scene in Vancouver and Camas is expanding rapidly. The new waterfront area is developing rapidly. And there is all kinds of commercial construction going up in East Vancouver. Hewitt Packard has announced plans for a massive new campus in the old gravel mine next to the East Vancouver Costco. Maybe when Vancouver finally grows up and stops thinking so much like a car suburb then we can talk about real transit solutions between Vancouver and Portland that don't involve "express" buses stuck in I-5 and I-205/84 traffic.

I think you may be right, but we can't discount the symbiotic relationship between Portland and Vancouver. The two work hand in hand, for the most part. But I certainly agree that Vancouver's growth is positive and has perhaps a greater growth curve than the parent city. The standoff of who will pay for this potential light rail/bridge expansion is not going to be solved anytime soon. I have little faith this will be solved by Washington State, as they show little interest in Vancouver to Portland access. They are more concerned with continueing to build out the Seattle area light rail project.