anyone have insight into the mysterious protocols of dyfs (early, months, normal)
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But if you get arrested and thrown in jail your kids could be taken away anyway. The difference is if the kids are taken away at birth they have less chance of being exposed to more irresponsible behavior. Do you know what can happen to a child that lives with parents who take drugs?
I have kids. I've also lived with a marijuana addict, and had a friend who smoked it while pregnant (although it was legal where she lived). I know more than enough about the subject to be giving an informed opinion.
But if you get arrested and thrown in jail your kids could be taken away anyway. The difference is if the kids are taken away at birth they have less chance of being exposed to more irresponsible behavior. Do you know what can happen to a child that lives with parents who take drugs?
I have kids. I've also lived with a marijuana addict, and had a friend who smoked it while pregnant (although it was legal where she lived). I know more than enough about the subject to be giving an informed opinion.
Yes you can get thrown in jail for using marijuana, but if you're not a complete dufus about how you buy it and where you use it that is not such a strong possibility, even given that a marijuana user is arrested every 56 seconds in America.
Most small time users in most states are not going to jail on their first offense, no matter how strict the laws are in that state. They are more likely in most states to get an option for mandated rehab and a period of probation or pay a fine and get probation, but then, since you are so concerned, and claim to know so much, you know that.
Generally on this thread we were talking about the mother testing positive for marijuana use, not all drugs. Since adults that have used marijuana have become President, as well as Olympic gold medalists, I think you're getting a bit excited over nothing, but then you are a PARENT (OMG) so I understand. I remember when PARENTS got so excited and wouldn't let their kids listen to the rock group Huey Lewis and the News song, "I want a new Drug" just because it had the word drug in the title. The song itself was a love song that basically said love was better than any drug (an anti-drug song if you will), not that a PARENT could be bothered to actually listen to it, but I digress....
Just the act of using something that is illegal does not make it irresponsible, while using something that is legal irresponsibly is far more of a problem, maybe, if you are really concerned with harm, your concern is misplaced?
We know that alcohol and tobacco causes real harm to both a fetus and a child. Responsible marijuana users, are not going to give marijuana to their kids, outside of a treatment plan under a Dr's care, anymore than they would give them alcohol or tobacco, but if they did, at least marijuana is not toxic and not addictive, unlike those legal substances, so calm down. Marijuana use during pregnancy does not harm the fetus as the studies I cited show.
There is no such thing as a marijuana addict. Marijuana is not addicting. It certainly can take up a lot of time, when you could be doing something more productive, both in using and in procurement, but that's about it, and is the choice of the user, not you.
Prohibitionists would like to tell you it's psychologically addicting, but that is a bunch of double talk. I eat chocolate 3 or 4 times a week, but I'm not a choclate addict, I can quit at any time. Prohibitionists also like to say that the majority of people in rehab are there for marijuana addiction, but that is simply because those folks were mandated to treatment as an alternative to incarceration, and that says nothing about the addictiveness of marijuana.
You have kids and have a natural instinct to protect them, good for you, but not news. Parents are always trying to protect their kids from music, other religions, video games, movies, comic books, other kids and life in general, here's a clue - your values will likely be your kids values when they grow up, that's what all the studies say and I bet they are right bcause I turned out pretty much that way and you likely did too, more than we'd both admit.
You lived with a loser that used his marijuana use as an excuse not to be productive, too bad, you are better off without him and his excuses, but you know that.
Your friend smoked marijuana while pregnant, so what, one person is not a scientifically valid proof of anything, and you may not know what other things she was doing or her family history, so you can't really draw any meaningful conclusions from her.
Go ahead and justify your actions to yourself all you want. And to child services, and the courts, and whoever else you end up having to explain yourself to. While it's still illegal that's all that matters. You know you're breaking the law but have decided it's worth the risk. Your choice.
I've seen what it does to people. You might feel the need to trivialize my experiences but I won't change my opinion.
And for the record I don't think it is good parenting to smoke or drink while pregnant or while the kids are in the home. I've certainly never done it and never will.
Yes you can get thrown in jail for using marijuana, but if you're not a complete dufus about how you buy it and where you use it that is not such a strong possibility, even given that a marijuana user is arrested every 56 seconds in America.
Most small time users in most states are not going to jail on their first offense, no matter how strict the laws are in that state. They are more likely in most states to get an option for mandated rehab and a period of probation or pay a fine and get probation, but then, since you are so concerned, and claim to know so much, you know that.
Generally on this thread we were talking about the mother testing positive for marijuana use, not all drugs. Since adults that have used marijuana have become President, as well as Olympic gold medalists, I think you're getting a bit excited over nothing, but then you are a PARENT (OMG) so I understand. I remember when PARENTS got so excited and wouldn't let their kids listen to the rock group Huey Lewis and the News song, "I want a new Drug" just because it had the word drug in the title. The song itself was a love song that basically said love was better than any drug (an anti-drug song if you will), not that a PARENT could be bothered to actually listen to it, but I digress....
Just the act of using something that is illegal does not make it irresponsible, while using something that is legal irresponsibly is far more of a problem, maybe, if you are really concerned with harm, your concern is misplaced?
We know that alcohol and tobacco causes real harm to both a fetus and a child. Responsible marijuana users, are not going to give marijuana to their kids, outside of a treatment plan under a Dr's care, anymore than they would give them alcohol or tobacco, but if they did, at least marijuana is not toxic and not addictive, unlike those legal substances, so calm down. Marijuana use during pregnancy does not harm the fetus as the studies I cited show.
There is no such thing as a marijuana addict. Marijuana is not addicting. It certainly can take up a lot of time, when you could be doing something more productive, both in using and in procurement, but that's about it, and is the choice of the user, not you.
Prohibitionists would like to tell you it's psychologically addicting, but that is a bunch of double talk. I eat chocolate 3 or 4 times a week, but I'm not a choclate addict, I can quit at any time. Prohibitionists also like to say that the majority of people in rehab are there for marijuana addiction, but that is simply because those folks were mandated to treatment as an alternative to incarceration, and that says nothing about the addictiveness of marijuana.
You have kids and have a natural instinct to protect them, good for you, but not news. Parents are always trying to protect their kids from music, other religions, video games, movies, comic books, other kids and life in general, here's a clue - your values will likely be your kids values when they grow up, that's what all the studies say and I bet they are right bcause I turned out pretty much that way and you likely did too, more than we'd both admit.
You lived with a loser that used his marijuana use as an excuse not to be productive, too bad, you are better off without him and his excuses, but you know that.
Your friend smoked marijuana while pregnant, so what, one person is not a scientifically valid proof of anything, and you may not know what other things she was doing or her family history, so you can't really draw any meaningful conclusions from her.
And, yes, doing something illegal is being irresponsible. With respect to marijuana use in pregnancy, that means addicting the fetus and requiring that the newborn suffer through withdrawal symptoms.
Sorry, but potheads do not tend to make good parents.
And, yes, doing something illegal is being irresponsible. With respect to marijuana use in pregnancy, that means addicting the fetus and requiring that the newborn suffer through withdrawal symptoms.
Sorry, but potheads do not tend to make good parents.
GO Ask Alice is a service of Columbia University for students. It has a clear bias against marijuana, and they say some things that are either controversial, or simply not true, nor do they cite sources. They also confuse statistical links with causality, which are not the same. Unbiased studies do not support the conclusions of Go Ask Alice.
You have to remember that any literature about marijuana is highly polititicized and subject to the bias of the originator of that literature, but if you look at unbiased scientific studies, that have been subject to peer review, you will find something much closer to the truth. Just imagine the reaction from PARENTS (OMG) if Columbia University were to say that marijuana is not physically addictive and can be used by responsible adults in the same way that alcohol is. They also have to protect their considerable federal subsidies (follow the money) and parrot the government line. This is also why Rutgers refused to grow marijuana for the State of NJ, fear of losing federal funds.
Your second source is the NIH, National Institute of Health, a government body, which also parrots the governments official line. Unfortunately when even NIH's own funded studies do NOT support the government position, they yank the funding, and or supress the findings, as they did in Jamaica.
In the study you cite, they worked with users 14 years old to 24 years old. Not a group known for being particularly responsible in regard to any substance. When you weight a study with a group known for abuse, and testing the limits, you tend to skew your results. You would get a different result if the test group was age 35 to 55. The study also noted that going in, the test subjects all had at least one confirmed dependency attribute. You should take the time to understand the difference between dependency and addiction, they are not the same. You can develop a dependency for marijuana, but you can not develop an addiction.
Your last source is from the DRUG PREVENTION NETWORK, gee I wonder what their bias would be?
No, doing something illegal can be very responsible, especially if the law is unjust or applied unfairly. If it were not for a group of men doing something illegal, this country would not exist. Do you think Ghandi was irrresponsible? Were Northerners who brought slaves through the underground railroad to freedom irresponsible? Do you never question authority? or does your government always know what's best for you?
There are some people, usually very heavy users of marijuana, that will have some minor withdrawal symtoms such as: some irritability, excess saliva, and reduced appetite, which will often clear up within a few days. These symtoms are no worse, and usually more mild, than if you were to quit caffeine, it's not like nicotine or alcohol, which do actual documented damage to adults and minors, have real and difficult to deal with withdrawal symptoms, and are both legal. Most people do not "suffer" as you put it, from any withdrawal symtoms from marijuana.
The prohibitionists want to demonize marijuana to continue the failed drug policies of the DEA and FDA, but since the majority of Americans have tried marijuana at least once, it's getting to be harder to convince us that there is any truth to their position. They are using "the children" one of their favorite tactics, to get you to go along with marijuana drug policies that are out of all proportion to any real risk, and as parents who want to protect their children, it's understandable that you would fall for it, which is why they use that strategy. They play on your fears which is far easier than dealing with the truth.
You really have no basis to say that "potheads" are not good parents. There is a good chance you know regular marijuana users, they just do not choose to advertise their use, given how they expect you to react. What is scary is that absent of any real harm, you would take a child away from their parents, and make them wards of the state. If you were to look at what has happened to children in that circumstance in NJ, you would be appalled, and I would hope you would change your mind, although I know that trying to talk to parents realistically about drugs is like talking to a wall.
We will have to agree to disagree, but citing government sources, or sources that have a money bias, due to receipt of government funds, is not a very good way to structure your argument.
GO Ask Alice is a service of Columbia University for students. It has a clear bias against marijuana, and they say some things that are either controversial, or simply not true, nor do they cite sources. They also confuse statistical links with causality, which are not the same. Unbiased studies do not support the conclusions of Go Ask Alice.
You have to remember that any literature about marijuana is highly polititicized and subject to the bias of the originator of that literature, but if you look at unbiased scientific studies, that have been subject to peer review, you will find something much closer to the truth. Just imagine the reaction from PARENTS (OMG) if Columbia University were to say that marijuana is not physically addictive and can be used by responsible adults in the same way that alcohol is. They also have to protect their considerable federal subsidies (follow the money) and parrot the government line. This is also why Rutgers refused to grow marijuana for the State of NJ, fear of losing federal funds
On addiction and dependency: UW-Madison: University Health Services (http://www.uhs.wisc.edu/display_story.jsp?id=736&cat_id=38 - broken link)
"Although marijuana use has been common in many segments of the American population for two generations, and many adults and teenagers know marijuana users who have not developed addiction even to prolonged use, the potential for the development of addiction is almost certainly greater today than in the 1960s or ’70s. The marijuana of today is different. It’s not just much more expensive; it also contains significantly more THC. In fact, the THC content of today’s pot is several times higher than that of even strong “weed” from the ’60s. This makes it more potent, but also more likely to induce tolerance and true addiction."
Quote:
Your second source is the NIH, National Institute of Health, a government body, which also parrots the governments official line. Unfortunately when even NIH's own funded studies do NOT support the government position, they yank the funding, and or supress the findings, as they did in Jamaica.
Provide documentation, please.
Quote:
In the study you cite, they worked with users 14 years old to 24 years old. Not a group known for being particularly responsible in regard to any substance. When you weight a study with a group known for abuse, and testing the limits, you tend to skew your results. You would get a different result if the test group was age 35 to 55. The study also noted that going in, the test subjects all had at least one confirmed dependency attribute. You should take the time to understand the difference between dependency and addiction, they are not the same. You can develop a dependency for marijuana, but you can not develop an addiction.
"An opposite example is marijuana, and whether it is addicting. There are some signs of physical dependence or withdrawal in heavy users, and withdrawal has been demonstrated in studies on animals. But what matters much more is that every year more than 100,000 people, most of them adolescents, seek treatment for their inability to control their marijuana use. They suffer from compulsive, uncontrollable marijuana craving, seeking and use. That, makes it addicting, certainly for a large number of people."
No, doing something illegal can be very responsible, especially if the law is unjust or applied unfairly. If it were not for a group of men doing something illegal, this country would not exist. Do you think Ghandi was irrresponsible? Were Northerners who brought slaves through the underground railroad to freedom irresponsible? Do you never question authority? or does your government always know what's best for you?
I hardly think Ghandi and the underground railroad compare to illegal drug use!
Quote:
There are some people, usually very heavy users of marijuana, that will have some minor withdrawal symtoms such as: some irritability, excess saliva, and reduced appetite, which will often clear up within a few days. These symtoms are no worse, and usually more mild, than if you were to quit caffeine, it's not like nicotine or alcohol, which do actual documented damage to adults and minors, have real and difficult to deal with withdrawal symptoms, and are both legal. Most people do not "suffer" as you put it, from any withdrawal symtoms from marijuana.
"Marijuana withdrawal: For marijuana, a mild opiatelike withdrawal syndrome has been observed. Signs may include fine tremors, hyperacusis, and a prominent Moro reflex; however, these symptoms rarely require treatment."
Mild? Perhaps. I consider it child abuse.
Quote:
The prohibitionists want to demonize marijuana to continue the failed drug policies of the DEA and FDA, but since the majority of Americans have tried marijuana at least once, it's getting to be harder to convince us that there is any truth to their position. They are using "the children" one of their favorite tactics, to get you to go along with marijuana drug policies that are out of all proportion to any real risk, and as parents who want to protect their children, it's understandable that you would fall for it, which is why they use that strategy. They play on your fears which is far easier than dealing with the truth.
"Researchers found that 42% of people surveyed in the U.S. had tried marijuana at least once"
Quote:
You really have no basis to say that "potheads" are not good parents. There is a good chance you know regular marijuana users, they just do not choose to advertise their use, given how they expect you to react. What is scary is that absent of any real harm, you would take a child away from their parents, and make them wards of the state. If you were to look at what has happened to children in that circumstance in NJ, you would be appalled, and I would hope you would change your mind, although I know that trying to talk to parents realistically about drugs is like talking to a wall.
We will have to agree to disagree, but citing government sources, or sources that have a money bias, due to receipt of government funds, is not a very good way to structure your argument.
No, I do not think any of my friends are marijuana users, despite the fact that we grew up in the 1970s!
The fact is that one can consume alcohol without getting drunk. Does anyone smoke marijuana and not get high? What happens to your newborn while you are high for several hours? Do you feed your baby during that time? Change diapers? Play with her? Do you leave her alone in the house or do you smoke in the same air space with her, thus exposing her to the smoke?
Eastern Wake News | Wendell man charged with child abuse (http://www.easternwakenews.com/2010/02/25/6383/wendell-couple-charged-with-child.html - broken link)
You seem to have the idea that the majority of marijuana users are able to limit their use and they and their families do not suffer any adverse effects from it. The fact is that marijuana users commonly abuse other drugs. And there is a lot of peer reviewed literature that documents adverse effects of in utero exposure to marijuana. And spare me the funding comments, please. When you use those, it does not help your argument at all.
There are no silly questions only ignorant answers
Quote:
Originally Posted by strawflower
At the risk of asking a silly question, what is DYFS? Same thing as CPS?
The Division of Youth and Family Services (DYFS) is New Jersey's child protection and child welfare agency.
This is the agency that neglects kids in the name of the state.
It's overworked and underpaid social workers have been investigated for writing fake reports, not doing site visits, etc., and as a result kids are sexually abused, beaten, starved, and occassionally die, but some here would rather send a kid to this fate because their mom tests positive for marijuana, and needs to be punished, instead of keeping the family together and encouraging the mom to try rehab if she has an actual addiction, or just minding their own business if she doesn't.
Be careful. They can take your kid. Even if they don't, it could mean a file, and involvement with that agency. I knew a woman who was a herion addict, she was afraid of the same issue, so she had her kid at home, and almost died. She was taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and of course, then there was a huge drama about why she had no prenatal care, and had the kid at home. She was discharged to a substance abuse treatment program for women with infants. And had to stay there until the "workers" felt she could go home. She was released in 16 weeks. But, that is herion, not MJ. Maybe you should investigate having a home birth, with a midwife, that might be a better plan for you.
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Apparently not....
