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I do not want to give many precise details, but I removed myself from a younger relatives who lives in another state after she had stolen, lied, and made one really bad choice after another starting from when she was a child. She has continued to make REALLY bad choices and chose to associate with felons at least as of two years ago She is not well-off financially, and we are, and she has been trying to get back into my good graces. I do NOT trust her but at the same time, I don't want to continue to "turn my back" on her if she really has changed. She is is now 34 years old, and I have not actually seen her in five years, so I don't know if she actually has changed or not -even though she says she has - the last really bad choice she made was just two years ago, but at least it was not illegal. (She chose to take one of her best friend's young sons into her home when her friend was sent to prison for a drug-related second degree murder, even though she already had three kids of her own and could not even afford those.)
As I said in my title, she has always been HIGHLY manipulative -- so I am torn between not wanting to put myself through a lot of grief again and wanting to resume the relationship and offer the support of an older friend if she truly has changed. (I would put the chances at no more than 90% that she is actually now wanting to make some good choices and has truly regretted her past choices.) My "gut feeling" is that she is just looking for some kind financial benefit in the future.) But, again, I am not sure how much of this gut feeling is due to the fact that she has hurt me so much in the past and I am looking for reasons to not resume a relationship with her again. Her recent emails to me "could melt butter". Btw, my husband is 100% against it, and I trust his instincts just as much as I trust my own.
Then what’s the issue; you appear to have answered your own question. It’s certainly okay to be there for her on an emotional level, as long as you set boundaries relative to your own happiness/health (and marriage).
That said, while folks certainly can change, it doesn’t mean it’s likely or that you should simply take her word for it - particularly if it’s relative to a request for money, obviously. In other words, has she gotten (professional) help or taken demonstrative steps to improve her life/health, or is she all talk and no action, so to speak? Your relationship didn’t erode overnight; trust will take time to develop again, but only if each side is willing to meet halfway. If she isn’t, that’s okay, too (and there isn’t anything you can do about it, other than pursue/continue a path to your own happiness).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye77
In Florida, I've had 2 different lawyers advise me to specifically disinherit anyone who you wish to exclude. Leaving them some small amount gives them a basis to sue for more.
A disinheritance clause is fine, but so is a ‘small amount’; the point is in regard to omitting a close relative’s name entirely.
A disinheritance clause is fine, but so is a ‘small amount’; the point is in regard to omitting a close relative’s name entirely.
Thanks for sharing your opinion, but I get my legal advice from the lawyers sitting across the desk from me (and they were both very clear about it), and I strongly suggest to the OP that she does the same.
As to the niece, again, she's nothing but trouble. Run.
In Florida, I've had 2 different lawyers advise me to specifically disinherit anyone who you wish to exclude. Leaving them some small amount gives them a basis to sue for more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye77
Thanks for sharing your opinion, but I get my legal advice from the lawyers sitting across the desk from me (and they were both very clear about it), and I strongly suggest to the OP that she does the same).
It’s absurd for any lawyer to suggest one can’t/shouldn’t leave a ‘small amount’ (which is hilariously nebulous, in and of itself). The point of a disinheritance clause is so that one does not omit a close family member’s name; the same result is achieved relative to any amount. That said, it’s only hearsay, so-to-speak, a lawyer actually stated such. It’s possible you misunderstood; else, oddly, it circles back around (and is relevant) to the thread title.
Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 02-15-2024 at 10:18 AM..
Reason: added last sentence
Like a couple of people posting here I am more hopeful. That's a good thing in society. Who wouldn't want to have a second chance if they had messed up?
But they have to be consistent, patient and earn back that trust. The old, "Watch what I do, not what I say."
I believe people may not be able to change their basic inclinations but with a lot of good support, consequences, boundaries and desire some people are able to control their behavior. Maybe that's all any of us have when it comes to disappointing other people.
I believe it isn't what we want to do or what we think that makes us who we are. We'd all be in trouble if it were. What matters in our relationships is what we actually do in spite of what we think.
I'd still l watch and wait in a supportive way before I'd open my life to someone I believed had the power to hurt me or a member of my family. I'd also set tight boundaries that I wouldn't go back on. And I'd express them. " If you do this you will no longer have my support." Absolutely no financial support until a very long period of time. That one almost always causes problems.
Most people have to be in a very desperate condition to want to change their behavior. As hard as it is to watch, allow them to be. It's an aid to change.
Ya know, I don't know. I've always defended my Niece, she disappeard several years ago, she just turned 40. My Dad has always sent money, we send jewelry that was my Mom's. A couple years ago he told me to write a check for her and I said NO, and I had to show him video of her and some guy steeling pot plants from her grandparents yard, They grew it for the grandpa, who had Parkinsons. My Dad was very hurt and disappointed. He hasn't given her anything since then.
Last year her Mother contacted me, (my brother's x wife), they had moved to NC from CA and Dad was very happy, he wanted to see them as they were good friends before my brother married their daughter. So her Mother told me she called her and she was clean and sober for several months. We begged her to tell her daughter to call Great Grandpa, (my Dad) or me. She says she is embarrased and guilty for the stuff she had done. Her Mother and Grandmother came here to see us, the Father had passed. We all still care about Randi and want her to call. I just don't know, if she is telling the truth. We don't have a number for her, just her Mother does.
Like a couple of people posting here I am more hopeful. That's a good thing in society. Who wouldn't want to have a second chance if they had messed up?
But they have to be consistent, patient and earn back that trust. The old, "Watch what I do, not what I say."
I believe people may not be able to change their basic inclinations but with a lot of good support, consequences, boundaries and desire some people are able to control their behavior. Maybe that's all any of us have when it comes to disappointing other people.
I believe it isn't what we want to do or what we think that makes us who we are. We'd all be in trouble if it were. What matters in our relationships is what we actually do in spite of what we think.
I'd still l watch and wait in a supportive way before I'd open my life to someone I believed had the power to hurt me or a member of my family. I'd also set tight boundaries that I wouldn't go back on. And I'd express them. " If you do this you will no longer have my support." Absolutely no financial support until a very long period of time. That one almost always causes problems.
Most people have to be in a very desperate condition to want to change their behavior. As hard as it is to watch, allow them to be. It's an aid to change.
It could be less complicated to try to forgive if no financial interests motivation could exist if both parties are in similar economic situation.
Yes, we would still advise caution as twice broken hearts are tough to heal.
The older we are our health and our emotional equilibrium becomes more and more important for longevity and wellbeing.
Here we have inequality of financial means, other considerations like the potential of that relative, her unknown boyfriend or hers /her friend’s children to inflict physical harm to OP.
It doesn’t take long to look up grandparents, parents being harmed and killed for the share of the inheritance or even simply money out of their wallets.
Just have read a case when one kind grandma took in her homeless grandson with his girlfriend while he was allegedly trying to kick the drug habit.
She was very kind and let them stay, fed them, gave her car to the grandson’s girlfriend - and suffered a horrible death by their hands - so they could steal her checks to cash it.
The bank rejected it as suspicious and called the grandfather to come to the bank to verify the check as the grandson have cashed one before and the bank was informed by the grandfather that it was fraudulent.
Yet, they still kept them in the house.
She has expressed remorse for how she treated my husband me (without any prompting) -- however, I am not inclined to believe her due to her past very manipulative behavior.
Second, it interesting about the genetics aspect. She is a duplicate of her mother, who also made some very poor choices in her personal life, including being arrested numerous times for various charges (some very serious). However, that being said, although I have read that there is or might be a genetic element to antisocial behavior, I personally believe very strongly that it does come down to choice -- no one forced her to have children she could not afford or to steal.
That being said, I do not want to give any more personal details -- although I doubt very much if she or any of her friends read City-Data. Again, I am much more interested in hearing about the experiences of others instead in going into more detail of my own concerning this issue.
Maybe you should confront her in a polite way to tell her that you suspect the ulterior motives if the relative initiated the sweet talking in hopes to get some financial help now or the assets in the future.
Tell her that you want to be honest upfront that none of it is going to happen for reasons known to her.
Then I would say that you wish her well and would try to help but only with some advice but the assets already designated/distributed; you live mail check to mail check and no changes or intentions to include that relative to inherit are ever going to happen in spite the renewal of the relationship for your own reasons.
Assume that she has your current address and knows the values of your real estate, some other financial information.
I wouldn’t use the same e-mail you are using for financial transactions or give her the same phone number you use with banks, shopping sites.
One never is too careful§.
You could do some spying on her yourself in similar manner if curious.
No rush to tell her about your decision to disinherit her; try to talk about kids, try to find out their names, how long her friend is in prison? It could be a lie about best friend and she just fosters from the State?
Get more info just in case first - it isn’t difficult; then you could verify a lot of the information about her life and perhaps find an answer to your doubts.
What does she tell you she does for work? - sorry - cancel that - it is too much details here
By the age of 34? What has she done lately or in the last few years to indicate being a decent person who doesn’t want money from you? If it was clear you aren’t funding anything for her nor would you include her in any will, what would be left of your relationship?
Does she want to talk to you on the phone? I wouldn’t let someone like her come into my home or lend her a car nor do errands for her, nor support her kids nor give them gifts. Just a big no on financial usery.
I’m trying to figure out what she wants from you. Even if it’s just to bend your ear with her dramas, plaints, self pity, use you as free therapy or attention getting….I would draw the line at being used in that way.
If she cannot be socially appropriate and respectful, no don’t put up with dysfunctional emotional patterns either.
I suspect she will show her motives, and when thwarted, will disappear.
If you decide to partially let her in, you should check with yourself if you can handle the disappointment. Or, would you question “what if” should you not talk to her. It’s about what would bother you more.
Also what do you want out of this? Putting aside the fantasy she’s a reformed human being, delightful now, who just wants to know you for no personal gain, putting that aside for now— think about what you want to gain from this?
A few phone calls, hear news about family, see she’s better(could be fiction).
A lot of scammy types can take quite a long time to run their scam, waiting until confidence had been gained.
She might be all sweetness for a length of time but then you could feel shocked one day when she reverts.
Or she’d never changed.
There’s a case for avoiding all that. I’d figure the older I got the less I can deal with it, but the older one is, the more vulnerable one is to manipulation. One gets philosophical and spiritual and likely yearns for connections to past family members.
Just be careful, don’t get surprised and shocked because I don’t think people change that much. They spent years manipulating because it has worked before for them to an extent, maybe short term gains.
If they haven’t found healthier ways to cope and gain the things they need, why would they give up manipulating?
Most people have to be in a very desperate condition to want to change their behavior. As hard as it is to watch, allow them to be. It's an aid to change.
This is what I think. It usually takes something really extreme for manipulative people who make really bad choices to change. And even then, it's far from a sure thing.
Is there a way you could help her kids without it going through her? Take them shopping for clothes, shoes? Dinner outings? That could make life much easier for them.
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