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Soothsayer....There is this wonderful new high technology invention called the paragraph. It is used to seperate various sub thoughts to make them comprehensible. Why don't you try using them?
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Originally Posted by soothsayer1234
I believe there will always be room for ethical people that are able to change with the times as well. RE has been transformed markedly by technology the last few years, and will continue to do so. That being said, one can be competent and experienced, and exceedingly ethical, and still be left along the wayside if one doesn't keep up with the technological times.
Don't confuse technology with the nature of the business. Discounter have been around forever. They are not technology enabled. And they always have the same problem. They do well in high volume sellers markets and crash in low volume buyers markets. All RE operations can be technologically advanced...and will be. Though the technology level is not terribly high nor does it appear to offer significant financial advantage.
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Many agents want to hold dearly to the old paradigms of driving buyers around, putting up signs, uploading MLS info, advertising on the usual places, and pretty much doing things the same as they were 10-20 years ago. Many of the agents who want to hold onto the old paradigm have indeed been in the business many years, and would have great difficulty mentally dealing with a largely web-mediated transaction. It isn't an issue of ethics or competence. There were many competent x-ray technicians, travel agents, stockbrokers, and factory workers as well, and what can be outsourced or web-mediated in those fields has, and what can in the future will. Many more occupations will either disappear altogether or become radically transformed. Real estate, regardless of realtor lobbying or tradition, is not immune, and has been changing at warp speed for some time.
It all sounds plausible but it does not work that way. There have now been dozens of attempts to "transform" the business. Has pretty much failed. The back office can be and is being highly automated...well behind other industries I mght add. But the sales process is not particularly suited to web interaction. There are some interesting new things...aggregators and referral operations of various sorts...but they in general take a cut which will tend to increase rather than decrease costs.
Of the newcomers the successful are still the salesman. The glib, quick and capable salesman. Techies do a little better on the web side. But that is no place near as effective as being a good salesman.
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Let's face it, the biggest reason Re agents fear change is that they would have a difficult, if not impossible time, making the same money in another field, speaking for those that ARE still thriving. Many are middle-aged, many have families, and don't have 3-4 years to take out of their lives to get a degree, and retool for another trade. Frankly, RE is just about the last opportunity for those without other avenues, not on corporate career tracks, or solid blue-collar trades, to make a decent wage. Go check out some of the on-line Florida papers and read about former agents stocking groceries at safeway or toting orange aprons at home depot just to survive. Every rationalization will be made by these people to keep things the way they are, and keep any further mediation by tech and the web at bay.
That is all silly. The able agents survive. The opportunists leave. But it has no technology bias. It would be my view that the key to survival in the existing market is a referral base. And that is the oldest of all RE ploys.
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I can tell you right now that the days of the major old franchises are close to over. There simply is no need for a national, brick-and-mortar presence anymore. Not only is it not cost-efficient, and a huge waste of resources, but it is at this point getting in the way of technology. Cen-21, Coldwell, ERA, and Sothby's were under the same umbrella of Cendant for years, unknown to most of the buying public. It was essentially a price cartel, and artificially held up commissions for years till the justice department stepped in and shook things up a bit. Now, they look to be sold off, and some brands may go defunct. There was massive corruption in Cendant, and huge amounts of money were made that could have been applied to the client transactions and saved people much money over the years. In a nutshell, they ripped people off, including their own agents, big time
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Some will survive some won't. It is really immaterial. RE is local. The nationals provide advertising and market presence. That often sells. And this is a sales business.
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In a nutshell, the current RE paradigm is as ripe for all-out change as any industry ever was. The RE business will change so much so quickly that it will blow the minds of most agents. As the loan market concurrently changes as well, and the overvalued housing slows for a few years for a very badly needed national correction, look for the real estate industry to be virtually unrecognizable from what it has been, and still largely is. The old agents, doing things the old ways, will fight it tooth and nail, to no avail. As far as comparing RE to travel agents or stock trading goes, saying that those transactions
lack the skill level of the RE transaction is baseless. Compare taking a Series 7 exam to trade stock for an investment banking house with getting a RE license. One must be backed by a trader to even take the test. Rad techs must have 3 year degrees, and their skills are being outsourced to Asia. Surely an occupation with a low bar like RE, in which many states allow one to study on-line, with no face-to-face instruction, is ripe for wholesale change, if not complete eradication. There simply is no need for it in its present form, and no way it can survive much longer as it is currently set up. It has directly contributed to the housing recession we are dealing with as well. The RE industry must and will be completely altered, hand-in-glove with the loan industry. It will be quite cost-efficient, streamlined, and unrecognizable as we pull out of the housing slump the next couple years. Its nothing if not amazing that the RE industry has existed in its present form as long as it has, but you can blame that on the national cartel of companies and the govermental lobbies, who fought it with everything they had, up to the present day. It is simply unsustainable now. The Justice Department is set on dismantling the entire RE industry as we know it. Check out the below link to see how they plan on dismantling the old system as we speak.....
The quasi-govermental agencies such as Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and such are becoming insolvent, and are paying for
years of corruption and malfeasance. See link below...
Again, the RE industry is at an unsustainable crossroads at this point, and nearing an end of doing business the old way.
We have now reached that point. RE agents, again, will dispute this, and fight the changes tooth-and-nail, but that
is to be expected. This time, no cartel or lobbying will keep those long overdue changes from transforming the industry.
I think I first heard this rant about 20 years ago when I was in the computer business. It all sounds plausible but it has already gone past the point at which it would happen. Both stock trades and travel proved automatable. The RE sales process has not. To a large degree even the vastly simpler car sales process has resisted automation.
It is simply a hands on business. I happen to have the technical skills and no how to deal with a high technology solution to RE. But I don't see it. You can do some gimmicks but the base process does not work without the hands on.
The DofJ may or may not do something. But I would warn of the famous law of unintended consequences. You want to see the market get really interesting break up the big brokers...you will immediately get hundreds of sharks off in a feeding frenzy. The poor consumer.
Sure....and we are all anonymous on the board, so no worries about the IRS or whathaveyou on here. That's what killed me about the reticence, that we are all anonymous on here, or should be. Only a fool would use his/her real name on here. I was in the business for 10 years, from '95 to '05. I was on a 100% commission basis. Made 30K first year net, minus expenses about 25K. Made about 60K most years after that, minus say 7K in expenses took home about 55K before taxes. Made about 50K my last year in the business, 2005, after which I left altogether for a job in the financial field at an investment bank. I simply feel that this industry is now dead....there are still far too many people in it, and I think younger people, say under 40, who get into it as a new field now are wasting their most productive years in a industry that may be 100% web-mediated in 2-3 years. Look at the travel industry, or online trading, for a taste of the future in RE. I can't see why a young person now, particularly one with a family, would waste precious time that could be spent retooling for solid jobs like medical professions that pay well and aren't going anywhere. I've seen countless agents in my area hurting very badly. The blue-collar buyers can't qualify for loans, and the middle and uppers are talking themselves out of the market. It is an absolutely across the board thing. Any young person who spends valuable retooling time now spending time they will never recover in an industry that will not be around in a few years in commission-based form is an absolute fool.
I'm glad to see that several other responses have addressed some of these points. My name and contact information are also available at the click of a button, along with my HI license number. Nothing hidden here, nor do I have anything to hide from the IRS , as the text above seems to imply.
In addition, I do not feel that blanket statements about new agents entering the field are well-grounded. I evaluated this choice carefully, and my personal circumstances are making my career change possible--circumstances which a casual observer can have no knowledge of. I originally moved to Hawaii to teach, so salary has never been my number one priority in job choices. Job satisfaction and personal fulfillment have always outweighed salary as my justification for committing to a career-path.
What I did see in my experience in RE administration is that there is an opportunity for young professionals to make a place for themselves in a changing marketplace. I observed that many experienced or "older" agents do not have the knowledge or desire to function in a rapidly changing technological environment nor were they relating well with a new generation of home-buyers.
The RE industry will likely be seeing some changes over the next few years....but as long as people have to move for careers, want to move to a new state where laws are different, have investment properties in far-away places, have busy lives full of responsibilites that don't allow them to take time to fully concentrate on the ins and outs of real estate, etc, etc, etc, professional agents continue to offer valuable services to consumers. And those of us who find the work rewarding will continue to provide our services and enjoy knowing that we can contribute to educating clients who might be new to the real estate market or helping experienced clients achieve their financial and lifestyle goals.
When I was selling houses back in the early '90s, it was done very differently from how it is done today. The job of a real estate agent changes quite frequently. Back in the '90s, we had a huge BOOK with listings...no computer! Did we ever think that most of our buyers would find houses online? Of course not. Do they still need us? You betcha!
By the way...if any of you sell cars, I really would love to know what a car salesman makes when they sell a brand new car.
The reason I ask is that each and every time we've ever bought a car, the salesman is always whining about how they make so little money. I'm curious. Anyone care to share?
Soothsayer....There is this wonderful new high technology invention called the paragraph. It is used to seperate various sub thoughts to make them comprehensible. Why don't you try using them?
Don't confuse technology with the nature of the business. Discounter have been around forever. They are not technology enabled. And they always have the same problem. They do well in high volume sellers markets and crash in low volume buyers markets. All RE operations can be technologically advanced...and will be. Though the technology level is not terribly high nor does it appear to offer significant financial advantage.
It all sounds plausible but it does not work that way. There have now been dozens of attempts to "transform" the business. Has pretty much failed. The back office can be and is being highly automated...well behind other industries I mght add. But the sales process is not particularly suited to web interaction. There are some interesting new things...aggregators and referral operations of various sorts...but they in general take a cut which will tend to increase rather than decrease costs.
Of the newcomers the successful are still the salesman. The glib, quick and capable salesman. Techies do a little better on the web side. But that is no place near as effective as being a good salesman.
That is all silly. The able agents survive. The opportunists leave. But it has no technology bias. It would be my view that the key to survival in the existing market is a referral base. And that is the oldest of all RE ploys.
.
Some will survive some won't. It is really immaterial. RE is local. The nationals provide advertising and market presence. That often sells. And this is a sales business.
I think I first heard this rant about 20 years ago when I was in the computer business. It all sounds plausible but it has already gone past the point at which it would happen. Both stock trades and travel proved automatable. The RE sales process has not. To a large degree even the vastly simpler car sales process has resisted automation.
It is simply a hands on business. I happen to have the technical skills and no how to deal with a high technology solution to RE. But I don't see it. You can do some gimmicks but the base process does not work without the hands on.
The DofJ may or may not do something. But I would warn of the famous law of unintended consequences. You want to see the market get really interesting break up the big brokers...you will immediately get hundreds of sharks off in a feeding frenzy. The poor consumer.
You speak of RE as if there is something markedly special and unique about it. Have you thought of the fact that many discounters and start-ups failed BECAUSE of the RE lobbies(NAR) and the MLS circling of wagons? Let's face it, no one, including tech people, wants to hear that their industry is redundant and/or defunct. The reason the Dept. of Justice wants to break up the old ways of doing business is so the direct intermediaries can survive, much as growing trees in a forest covered over by brush. Cut out the brush and redundancies, and you will see those formerly "failed" start-ups thriving just fine. Craigslist, Zillow, and such are just the beginning. The game is over.
You speak of RE as if there is something markedly special and unique about it. Have you thought of the fact that many discounters and start-ups failed BECAUSE of the RE lobbies(NAR) and the MLS circling of wagons? Let's face it, no one, including tech people, wants to hear that their industry is redundant and/or defunct. The reason the Dept. of Justice wants to break up the old ways of doing business is so the direct intermediaries can survive, much as growing trees in a forest covered over by brush. Cut out the brush and redundancies, and you will see those formerly "failed" start-ups thriving just fine. Craigslist, Zillow, and such are just the beginning. The game is over.
Your problem of course is that you simply don't understand. Neither Zillow nor Craig's list is in anyway a competitor of the conventional RE operation.
There have been scattered incidences of ganging up on the new kid. But mostly the "new" models are ignored and die. They simply generate insufficient revenue in a down market to survive.
In actual fact the conventional industries market share and average commission is increasing at the moment. Nothing special about that...generally happens in a slow, weak market. Note that internet buyers have far higher usage of RE Agents than there non-web equivalents.
DofJ is primarily upset about minimal service regulations. In general the RE industry has already given on the point. It is however still an interesting discussion. I think it clear that some of the discount models are based on effectively forcing the other side of the transaction into doing most of the work. It may well be that the regulatory agency will have to let up on rules that require one to treat the other side fairly to compensate. DofJ may think this a victory but I don't.
Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA & El Pescadero, BCS MX.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soothsayer1234
You speak of RE as if there is something markedly special and unique about it. Have you thought of the fact that many discounters and start-ups failed BECAUSE of the RE lobbies(NAR) and the MLS circling of wagons? Let's face it, no one, including tech people, wants to hear that their industry is redundant and/or defunct. The reason the Dept. of Justice wants to break up the old ways of doing business is so the direct intermediaries can survive, much as growing trees in a forest covered over by brush. Cut out the brush and redundancies, and you will see those formerly "failed" start-ups thriving just fine. Craigslist, Zillow, and such are just the beginning. The game is over.
Our local discounter went belly up because they failed to provide service to their customers at a price that was sustainable. They were members of the local MLS, they put properties in the MLS and we cooperated with them just as we would any other office.
The real estate brokerage business is a service business. Selling cars is a commodity business. Travel agents that book vacations with more than rudimentary itineraries are still in business because they provide a service that the average consumer can't easily provide for themselves. Where are the discount lawyers? Surely the law could be easily adapted to automation.
As soon as my computer can provide me a needs based service tailored completely to me, then the game might change, it most definitely wont be over.
Are you a bitter "For Sale By Owner" in the current market? lol j/k There will always be people who discount, always be for sale by owners, and always be Realtors making hundreds of thousands of dollars. Some people are do it yourselfers and some people like others to cater to their every whim! You can go camping or you can stay at the Ritz Carlton. Sewell in Dallas is my dealership instead of Mr "If I can't beat it I'll just give it to you" new car lot. I drive out of my way to Sewell for the level of service received and their ability to always exceed my expectations and the same holds true for Real Estate and other Service based business. Realtor fees are negotiable and I do negotiate according to the level of service desired. I door knock, I make phone calls, I talk to people in my community and I contribute to my community. A true honest educated Realtor is priceless. Tony Romo just signed a $60+ million dollar contract to *play* football and Realtors are helping people with in most cases the most important transaction of their life. Everyones a critic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by soothsayer1234
You speak of RE as if there is something markedly special and unique about it. Have you thought of the fact that many discounters and start-ups failed BECAUSE of the RE lobbies(NAR) and the MLS circling of wagons? Let's face it, no one, including tech people, wants to hear that their industry is redundant and/or defunct. The reason the Dept. of Justice wants to break up the old ways of doing business is so the direct intermediaries can survive, much as growing trees in a forest covered over by brush. Cut out the brush and redundancies, and you will see those formerly "failed" start-ups thriving just fine. Craigslist, Zillow, and such are just the beginning. The game is over.
You speak of RE as if there is something markedly special and unique about it. Have you thought of the fact that many discounters and start-ups failed BECAUSE of the RE lobbies(NAR) and the MLS circling of wagons? Let's face it, no one, including tech people, wants to hear that their industry is redundant and/or defunct. The reason the Dept. of Justice wants to break up the old ways of doing business is so the direct intermediaries can survive, much as growing trees in a forest covered over by brush. Cut out the brush and redundancies, and you will see those formerly "failed" start-ups thriving just fine. Craigslist, Zillow, and such are just the beginning. The game is over.
Google "Foxton's" and you'll indeed see the game is up. And I pity the soul who uses Zillow to price a home.
Hey, I was asking what YOU agents out there are pulling in now? I thought there were a fair number of active agents on this board......again, what are YOU personally pulling in right now in RE? My understanding is that agents are hurting big time sales wise right now..am I wrong?
Everyone is not working on an annual salary. Maybe the question to ask is "has your income increased or decrease and by what%"?
I think you need more leads to make a sale. I have worked over 30 years in all sorts of corporate jobs dealing with all levels of management including Corporate CE0's. I like this job best..but it is a relentless time consuming job. There are many houses on the market and a good real estate agent is actively marketing homes. You spend a ton of money in this job upfront..you probably have no idea. it is fun though if you work with people who treat you with professionalism, the same courtesy I treat my customers with.
This is my second fulll year in the business, my income has doubled from last year but again, much less than corporate America jobs I have had.
Zillow currently is showing a home I have for sale as $850,000 as $145.000. It really is not where it needs to be in accuracy. That type of inaccuracy will render the tool's integrity poorly...they need to fix it or it will not take off.
Someone will fix it no doubt.
Try getting a RE license and try this job..you might like it.
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, as the text above seems to imply.
Every agent makes a different income
