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I came across this site doing some research and wanted to get some advice from this group regarding an interesting ethical situation.
We recently closed on a home which was a FSBO listing. The subject property was never listed on MLS or advertised anywhere. We represented ourselves in the sale. The seller engaged a local RE agent to assist in facilitating the transaction.
At our request, the sale was consummated by way of a deed showing nominal consideration paid. We learned the RE agent chose to report this private sale to MLS the same day as closing. In so doing, the RE agent also made several material misrepresentations in the listing, including 1) an inaccurate purchase price (agent reported final sale price as the actual sale price + agent's earnings), 2) that the agent represented both buyer and seller in the transaction, and some other statements.
We understand that the price paid for the home is public in that anyone can go look it up. However, what really bothers me is that the price will be made available to anyone on the internet notwithstanding our deliberate efforts to prevent that. This RE agent took away our opportunity for (relative) anonymity.
After speaking with others inside the agent's brokerage, we were told the best that could be done is that the MLS listing can be restricted to "private" meaning anyone with MLS access could still see it, but it would not be pushed out publicly. But removal of the listing would be impossible and the information is still available on many sites.
I did not find much guidance in the National Association of Realtors rules or elsewhere about the ethics of a situation like this, but it certainly seems to be that this runs afoul of the requirement to treat all parties in the transaction fairly and honestly.
Any insights or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Let me ask before giving a more complete answer, because I think it does vary by area... Can you go to your county assessor’s public website and look up the purchase price - using either your name or address or both?
Last edited by Diana Holbrook; 06-10-2019 at 08:39 AM..
Not really. Online for a deed it would show "consideration: $1.00" in this type of situation (if you searched by property address or my name) but as far as I can tell, the document filed that actually lists the price but is filed with the assessor isn't available online. Also, there is a charge to access that information. Of course, anyone can go down to the records office and ask for it, but nobody's going to do that.
By way of a lodestar: A colleague just bought a house from a relative of his in the same county, and they did a private sale. Googling the property address pulls up a zillow page, but it doesn't show the price he paid or sale date. They also did a private "$1 deed" type of transaction. Which leads me to believe that the information Zillow and others pull from is not our local online records, but rather the MLS.
Not really. Online for a deed it would show "consideration: $1.00" in this type of situation but as far as I can tell, the document filed that actually lists the price but is filed with the assessor isn't available online. Of course, anyone can go down to the records office and ask for it though, but nobody's going to do that.
Have you looked at the assessor's website for search options? I would be surprised if your assessor's records aren't searchable online - because they are in our area, which makes the idea of trying to hide the price moot. Zillow and the other real estate search engines would have picked it up anyway. (FWIW, our deeds also usually give some nominal value of ~$10 plus other considerations~ that's pretty common)
Have you looked at the assessor's website for search options? I would be surprised if your assessor's records aren't searchable online - because they are in our area, which makes the idea of trying to hide the price moot. Zillow and the other real estate search engines would have picked it up anyway. (FWIW, our deeds also usually give some nominal value of ~$10 plus other considerations~ that's pretty common)
Yes, I have. Nominal consideration deeds will always refer to the second document filed with the county stating the price, but that document itself is not available online. At best, a search of the deed would hint to the searcher that if they want more information, they would have to go down to the assessor's office and ask for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
Also for information.... did you sign any kind of agreement with the agent involved? Or only the seller?
No. We do not know what was signed between seller-agent, though we do not believe it was a listing agreement. In fact, we signed documentation saying the agent did not represent us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
And are you saying there was a price of $X that was the total you actually paid... and the agent reported it as $X+commission?
We paid X for the house. In the MLS listing, the RE agent reported that the final sale price as X + the small fee earned on the deal. There was no commission earned.
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Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
Or did you pay an amount where it was itemized, with a total that included both price and commission?
All final closing paperwork indicated that the fee being paid to the RE agent was separate and distinct from the purchase price of the home.
At the end of the day, what is the net impact to you?
You bought the home you wanted at the price you wanted. End of story.
The Seller decided to use a RE agent, and likely agreed to provide data from the sale to their MLS (which is owned by the local RE association). That's not "your" data - that's theirs.
At the end of the day, what is the net impact to you?
You bought the home you wanted at the price you wanted. End of story.
The Seller decided to use a RE agent, and likely agreed to provide data from the sale to their MLS (which is owned by the local RE association). That's not "your" data - that's theirs.
And again - what is the impact to you?
Loss of privacy, and a deliberate disregard for my stated desire for such. Sure, that's hard to monetize, but I think that's pretty egregious behavior.
And no, I don't think the seller did sign any such document because the seller did not retain the RE agent in a traditional sense. It was always agreed and represented that the agent was there to facilitate the transaction only. We were told no listing agreement was signed.
Yes, I have. Nominal consideration deeds will always refer to the second document filed with the county stating the price, but that document itself is not available online. At best, a search of the deed would hint to the searcher that if they want more information, they would have to go down to the assessor's office and ask for it.
OK - but I'm not talking about viewing the documents, I'm talking about the data.... we can view the sale and mortgage history data online for any property, searching by address, or by name.
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No. We do not know what was signed between seller-agent, though we do not believe it was a listing agreement. In fact, we signed documentation saying the agent did not represent us.
It wouldn't have been a listing agreement, but it may have been some kind of agency representation agreement. I have actually done what you're upset about in our MLS, to add off-market and FSBO closings to the MLS history, for the benefit of my own stats, and for property history and comp valuations. But even if we hadn't added it in the MLS, I think Zillow would have picked up the sale out of county records eventually. It's not hidden here. In moist transactions, there would be nothing at all unethical about doing that. It is actually encouraged.
What I am wondering is if it was ever communicated to this agent that you did NOT want it published.
Quote:
We paid X for the house. In the MLS listing, the RE agent reported that the final sale price as X + the small fee earned on the deal. There was no commission earned.
All final closing paperwork indicated that the fee being paid to the RE agent was separate and distinct from the purchase price of the home.
This part is really weird. If we assume the agent was paid by the seller at close, it would be out of proceeds, I'm not sure why agent would have added on the amount.
Last edited by Diana Holbrook; 06-10-2019 at 11:12 AM..
OK - but I'm not talking about viewing the documents, I'm talking about the data.... we can view the sale and mortgage history data online for any property, searching by address, or by name.
Yep, I know what you meant. I do not believe the system where I am has that sort of functionality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
It wouldn't have been a listing agreement, but it may have been some kind of agency representation agreement. I have actually done what you're upset about in our MLS, to add off-market and FSBO closings to the MLS history, for the benefit of my own stats, and for property history and comp valuations. But even if we hadn't added it in the MLS, I think Zillow would have picked up the sale out of county records eventually. It's not hidden here. In moist transactions, there would be nothing at all unethical about doing that. It is actually encouraged.
What I am wondering is if it was ever communicated to this agent that you did NOT want it published.
Yep, the agent was definitely made aware, both before the closing and at the closing table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
This part is really weird. If we assume the agent was paid by the seller at close, it would be out of proceeds, I'm not sure why agent would have added on the amount.
Also agree with you there. Agent was paid by the seller at close out of proceeds. Agent also listed in the reported MLS posting that the final sale price = the final list price, which I presume also helped with their stats.
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