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Oh, so the attorney has been inside your home and knows enough about the value and the similar homes that are recently sold or currently for sale to advise you on this? Sounds like he's just inserted a foot into a big mouth.
Couple of questions - how long was the home on the market and did you get multiple offers?
I agree. This attorney should have stuck to his core competencies and kept his lips zipped about anything else.
The bottom line is . . . your attorney is not qualified to judge the value of your home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofybruno
Here is the timeline
- Thursday April 15, my agent showed the home to two potential buyers
- Friday April 16, the home officially listed (appointment only). Two set of potential buyers saw the home.
- Saturday April 17, three appointments
- Sunday April 18, two appointments
- Monday April 19 we received two offers:
- $15,000 over asking FHA load
- $10,000 over asking Conventional load
- two appointments
- Agent advised me to take the FHA offer
- I asked should we wait another week to see what other offers come in? The Agent told me if we do
that people might wonder why we haven't gone into escrow yet and people will wonder why the home is
"sitting" which she says will be viewed as a negative.
- Tuesday April 20, one appointment
- Wednesday April 21, two appointment
- Thursday April 22, one appointment.
- Friday April 23, I went into contract with the Conventional loan offer after they matched the FHA offer. This is after much back and forth with my agent to explain some things on the purchase offer from the FHA loan after which I was still confused and she couldn't explain anymore. So I reached out to some of my colleagues who are agents and I watched a lot of Youtube videos to educate myself and realized the FHA loan carries more risk then the conventional one, one of which if the home appraisers lower then the sale price that will be public with the home for 3 months with all other FHA offers.
Once we went into contract I still asked my agent to continue to show the home but we didn't really get anymore appointments to view the home after that.
I don't have too much real estate knowledge so it was really frustrating having to rely on my agent which wasn't getting my anywhere.
The full story here is that I am helping my mother with the sale of this home since my dad passed away in March and she decided to move back with us in another state. So since March I have been dealing with everything involved with settling my dad's affairs (letting agencies know about his death, submitting paperwork to companies so my mother is taken care of financially, arranging for the transport of their vehicle, plane tickets when to fly myself and my mother back. etc etc). I have my own family that I am responsible for along with work during all this. So it's been quite a challenge to say the least and I do feel bad now that I wasn't able to get top dollar for my mother's home.
Judging whether or not your house sold for "top dollar" requires a lot of local knowledge that people on this forum probably don't have.
This being said, I would disregard anything your attorney said about the sale price of your home. He's not qualified or knowledgeable enough in that arena to make such statements. I also wouldn't put much stock in the asking price of another listing. I could ask $2M for a shack in the middle of the desert with no plumbing and no electricity but that doesn't mean anyone is going to pay that for it. This is why when a real estate agent analyzes the market value of a potential listing they focus on sold properties primarily. Until someone steps up and says what they're willing to pay for a house everything else is just noise.
There's also more evidence that you were offered a fair price like that you received two offers and they both offered roughly the same sale price. I also think your agent gave you good advice when they said "don't wait a week." If listings are moving fast in your area then absolutely buyers will start to question if something is wrong with the property if it lingers on the market. Generally my experience has been that the most motivated buyers are the ones who will pay the most and they show up the earliest because they're the most motivated.
This being said . . . if you waited a month or 6 months is it possible you could sell for more? YES! Most markets have rising prices right now and waiting would only increase the likely sale price. However, you have to determine if the values are rising faster than what you're spending on carrying costs. Plus, market timing is a fool's game. The only way to know where the peak is, is to look at it from the way back down.
I agree. This attorney should have stuck to his core competencies and kept his lips zipped about anything else.
The bottom line is . . . your attorney is not qualified to judge the value of your home.
Judging whether or not your house sold for "top dollar" requires a lot of local knowledge that people on this forum probably don't have.
This being said, I would disregard anything your attorney said about the sale price of your home. He's not qualified or knowledgeable enough in that arena to make such statements. I also wouldn't put much stock in the asking price of another listing. I could ask $2M for a shack in the middle of the desert with no plumbing and no electricity but that doesn't mean anyone is going to pay that for it. This is why when a real estate agent analyzes the market value of a potential listing they focus on sold properties primarily. Until someone steps up and says what they're willing to pay for a house everything else is just noise.
There's also more evidence that you were offered a fair price like that you received two offers and they both offered roughly the same sale price. I also think your agent gave you good advice when they said "don't wait a week." If listings are moving fast in your area then absolutely buyers will start to question if something is wrong with the property if it lingers on the market. Generally my experience has been that the most motivated buyers are the ones who will pay the most and they show up the earliest because they're the most motivated.
This being said . . . if you waited a month or 6 months is it possible you could sell for more? YES! Most markets have rising prices right now and waiting would only increase the likely sale price. However, you have to determine if the values are rising faster than what you're spending on carrying costs. Plus, market timing is a fool's game. The only way to know where the peak is, is to look at it from the way back down.
Well from the get go I brought 4 comps within a few blocks of my mother's home (they closed 1-2 months prior to our listing) to my agent and asked them why they didn't appear on their comp list. They stated maybe it hadn't recorded yet, but I pointed out these all closed 1-2 months ago....crickets. About a week later I asked if they see those comps on whatever database they use and they said no.
Based on those comps and not my agents comps I said let's list for $485,000 instead of $475,000 like my agent suggested, they agreed with my price. Those 4 comps sold for $390, $390, $410, $420. That was the first red flag for me, it was the first of many "I" sentences where I did research and leg work to come to a decision.
I have several comps I'm monitoring that listed within a few weeks of ours to see what price they sell at and that'll basically prove my theory or not.
I still don't agree that having the house on the market two weeks before deciding on offers leaves an impression that something is wrong with the house but maybe that's just me.
As far as carrying cost there is no mortgage on the house so carrying cost would be electricity and water if it went back on the market, and I'd only have those on so people can see things working in the home. 2 or more months of those carrying cost to potentially get $20,000-$30,000 more then today is a no brainer.
Aside from these things I asked my agent when would be the earliest we can sign papers so I can book my flights to and from there along with scheduling a transport to pick up my mother's vehicle and the agent said we need to wait for the appraisal inspection to complete and get the report. I saw one Youtube video about the seller's settlement documents that can be signed before the closing date so I asked my agent who was handling that and they referred me to the attorney that will be handling our close. I called that attorney and they said as the seller we can sign a week or so after we accept the offer and we don't need to wait for the appraisal inspection to be complete. The attorney also told me they told that to my agent as well. The attorney also told me we don't need to be in town for the buyers walk-thru & closing date becaus anything at that point can be handled remotely, whereas my agent told me we should still plan to be in town 1 day after the closing in case there are any issues during the walk thru. There are quite a few of these "Hmmmm, really?" situations with this agent hence why I started this thread . Oh yeah the listing itself I was shocked, 90% of the pics were overexposed because of the strong sunlight coming thru the rooms, two photos were upside down, some were not focused and one photo has someone in it!
This experience has left me the more wiser though, I now know what to expect from a competent real estate agent. I just don't feel this agent earned their commission, instead I feel like I should get it based on all the self-education and outside advice I had to get to help me with my decisions.
BTW one agent friend of mine stated this agent hasn't sold anything in the last 12 months and this area is supposedly a "hot market"
I guess I'm trying to stay positive in that we got our target price range for the home, but knowing there could've been potentially more if marketed correctly is frustrating.
Based on your timeline, 8 days on the market and only 2 offers, I think it's fair to say you got top dollar in the current market. If you wait you run the risk of the 2 birds in hand flying away. You can only stall people for so long.
You got 2 quick offers that were similar. If you waited the market may have gone up and you may have found a buyer willing to pay more. However, it could have also been that those were your best 2 offers. There is no gaurantee you do better by waiting, and it is a fact that if your home sits on the market people think something is wrong. The showings slow down, and the offers get less competetive. I think you did well. Don't second guess yourself. Facts indicate you got the best possible offer you were going to get at this time.
I think the agent gave you excellent advice based on timelines and comments in your post. You may not have liked your agents personality or communication style, but it appears on the evidence presented they did the job you hired them for very well. They marketed the home and got multiple offers, and advised you, and helped you get to closing. The rest is just icing. Congratulations on the sale!
Well from the get go I brought 4 comps within a few blocks of my mother's home (they closed 1-2 months prior to our listing) to my agent and asked them why they didn't appear on their comp list. They stated maybe it hadn't recorded yet, but I pointed out these all closed 1-2 months ago....crickets. About a week later I asked if they see those comps on whatever database they use and they said no.
Based on those comps and not my agents comps I said let's list for $485,000 instead of $475,000 like my agent suggested, they agreed with my price. Those 4 comps sold for $390, $390, $410, $420. That was the first red flag for me, it was the first of many "I" sentences where I did research and leg work to come to a decision.
Reading this I can understand why you would doubt the efficacy of your agent. In fact, you've provided a lot more detail that wasn't in this post before (I don't really all the discussion threads and wasn't aware of a lot of this). There's a lot you've said here that understandably is giving you pause.
The comps you're mentioning seem to have sold for a lot less than your house. So, I'm just curious if there were better ones. Not sure why your agent said they couldn't find the comps you mentioned though and their refusal to show them to you on their system seems odd.
Talking about comps in a vacuum without local knowledge and without seeing all of the properties in question is really a meaningless conversation though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofybruno
I have several comps I'm monitoring that listed within a few weeks of ours to see what price they sell at and that'll basically prove my theory or not.
Please let us know how that turns out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofybruno
I still don't agree that having the house on the market two weeks before deciding on offers leaves an impression that something is wrong with the house but maybe that's just me.
As far as carrying cost there is no mortgage on the house so carrying cost would be electricity and water if it went back on the market, and I'd only have those on so people can see things working in the home. 2 or more months of those carrying cost to potentially get $20,000-$30,000 more then today is a no brainer.
It's human nature. If you observe a "rule" and you spot an exception to that "rule" you start to have questions about why that example is an exception. Working with buyers I can't tell you how many times I've gotten the question "why is that house still on the market?" If I had a dime for every time, I could retire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofybruno
Aside from these things I asked my agent when would be the earliest we can sign papers so I can book my flights to and from there along with scheduling a transport to pick up my mother's vehicle and the agent said we need to wait for the appraisal inspection to complete and get the report. I saw one Youtube video about the seller's settlement documents that can be signed before the closing date so I asked my agent who was handling that and they referred me to the attorney that will be handling our close. I called that attorney and they said as the seller we can sign a week or so after we accept the offer and we don't need to wait for the appraisal inspection to be complete. The attorney also told me they told that to my agent as well. The attorney also told me we don't need to be in town for the buyers walk-thru & closing date becaus anything at that point can be handled remotely, whereas my agent told me we should still plan to be in town 1 day after the closing in case there are any issues during the walk thru. There are quite a few of these "Hmmmm, really?" situations with this agent hence why I started this thread.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something. I think despite your attorney telling you that you have other options you got good advice here. Why spend the time and expense with the attorney to get all of this done and moving all the stuff out, etc. if you're not 100% sure it's a done deal yet? I probably would have given you the same advice . . . wait until you are 99% sure this is closing before you put all this effort in.
No idea why your agent wants you to be local for the final walk thru and even to stay a day after that though. Do you ever ask them the reasoning behind some of this advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofybruno
Oh yeah the listing itself I was shocked, 90% of the pics were overexposed because of the strong sunlight coming thru the rooms, two photos were upside down, some were not focused and one photo has someone in it!
That's really poor. In this day and age, there's really no reason not to have good photos on a listing. Even an amateur photographer can get pretty good results with an iPhone these days. All of my listings get professional level photography though but I don't deal with price points low enough where I wouldn't be able to budget for that. The market I work in just has values high enough where I don't have to even think about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofybruno
This experience has left me the more wiser though, I now know what to expect from a competent real estate agent. I just don't feel this agent earned their commission, instead I feel like I should get it based on all the self-education and outside advice I had to get to help me with my decisions.
Agents are definitely not all created equal. I'm always surprised how many people not only hire but stick with poor performing agents. Your agent has given you what seems like a mix of good and questionable advice. It doesn't seem like anything that's worth torpedoing your sale over though. As Brandon said and I tried to convey in my other post, the evidence points towards that you've achieved the highest sale price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofybruno
BTW one agent friend of mine stated this agent hasn't sold anything in the last 12 months and this area is supposedly a "hot market"
Does your friend work in this area as well? If so, why didn't you hire them? If not, I'm wondering where they go that information from. The reason I mention it is that there's a lot of misinformation out there especially on websites like Zillow. For some reason, I know I have about 4 different profiles on Zillow. Depending on which one you're looking at it might appear I have zero sales or a lot of sales. Their whole site is kind of messed up after they converted to an IDX feed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofybruno
I guess I'm trying to stay positive in that we got our target price range for the home, but knowing there could've been potentially more if marketed correctly is frustrating.
It's easy to second guess especially when your agent gives you reason to do so. I would say "stay the course." While you've definitely made the case that your agent could have done better, there doesn't seem to be anything you've said that would indicate you could significantly improve on the sale price.
Sorry folks $385,000 was our list price
Agent wanted to list at $375,000
Opinions may vary but IMO a $10K difference in the list price is not going to significantly impact the sale price in a strong seller's market like what most areas of the country are experiencing.
Yes, because you catch more eyeballs at $375 than at $385. People search up to $375 and from $375.
This. The price is the starting point and that's all right now. The market will set the value, auction style, right now. I know you want to think your agent sucks, but I'm just not seeing evidence that they gave you bad advice anywhere. Maybe they did and maybe they do suck, but I'm just not seeing it from your posts.
Where I am, anyone setting a search at $375,000 or $385,000 had better be able to pay $425,000+, or they are likely wasting their time.
I'm telling clients to search 10%-15% below their terminal budget comfort level.
List price is just a starting point for the real deal, and as long as the seller and agent don't do anything really dumb, that benchmark difference is meaningless.
Yes, because you catch more eyeballs at $375 than at $385. People search up to $375 and from $375.
My agent picked $375,000 based on the average price of the comps they pulled up. But like I stated there were 4 comps which sold higher and within a few homes of my home that wasn't part of the equation to compute the average. IMO incomplete data...why? Well my agent couldn't explain why those comps I found they didn't see. To me Comps on the same street or around the corner are better then ones a mile or two away. I mean everyone should agree with me on that right?
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