Seller contract with indefinite listing period (brokers, sales, buyers, court)
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I did show it to my lawyer who said it could be valid without an end date, ie valid until sold. He's very plugged into this community of realtors and giving this broker too much leeway.
Really? We have to have a start and end date here. We are required per our statutes to have a start and end date on our contracts. I can see the date that you sign being the start date of the contract though even if they forget to write it into the blank.
That said, I would just give them a week's notice that you intend to end the contract. Since there is no end date, there must be some statutory process for severing the contract. There has to be some kind of reasonable notice statute in your state for agents?
I would say people do NOT have permission to walk the slope (where does it go? Beach?) until offer is accepted.
You don't need everyone walking down there, waiver or not. Only serious buyers.
Similar to how we often handle horse properties here when there are still animals inside gates - No entering animal areas until contract is signed, and then only when seller is present.
If you and your agent have had this much breakdown already, find a way to get out of this contract and start over with someone else you have a better relationship with. If the agent won't let you out, talk to their broker in charge, or consult your lawyer, if you have a lawyer you already talk to.
I told her the contract was invalid so she offered to fill in those missing dates and resend (lol) and then said her computer had been hacked and the dates may have been erased. I then said whatever the cause is for that there is just too much conflict over the waiver topic and I was tired of it, which sent her back into a loop about the waiver...argh.
When I brought up that she'd never even seen my land - it's on a river and very beautiful once you get down there - she said she has asthma but her sales agent would go down. I responded that he'd already refused 3x due to a bad knee so please cancel. She did so rather nicely and I did feel bad.
The horse farm example is really useful, especially requiring that seller be present in that situation. I'm not sure I would restrict walking my land only to a buyer who has signed a contract but definitely to qualified and seriously interested buyers who sign a waiver of liability. I'm back to square one and need to find a broker who will support me not fight me. I don't see myself signing another exclusive after this experience, maybe an open listing will give me better control.
I told her the contract was invalid so she offered to fill in those missing dates and resend (lol) and then said her computer had been hacked and the dates may have been erased. I then said whatever the cause is for that there is just too much conflict over the waiver topic and I was tired of it, which sent her back into a loop about the waiver...argh.
When I brought up that she'd never even seen my land - it's on a river and very beautiful once you get down there - she said she has asthma but her sales agent would go down. I responded that he'd already refused 3x due to a bad knee so please cancel. She did so rather nicely and I did feel bad.
The horse farm example is really useful, especially requiring that seller be present in that situation. I'm not sure I would restrict walking my land only to a buyer who has signed a contract but definitely to qualified and seriously interested buyers who sign a waiver of liability. I'm back to square one and need to find a broker who will support me not fight me. I don't see myself signing another exclusive after this experience, maybe an open listing will give me better control.
You won't get a capable broker to sign an open listing, methinks, without some payment up front.
I wouldn't spend money on advertising, etc, when the commission is up for grabs for anyone without being first reimbursed for my time and effort.
Hm.
My gut tells me you need an independent second opinion.
Otherwise, it seems that this agent has Eternal Exclusive Right To Sell for your property.
I think that is not too likely, but you should have documentation in place, right?
I cancelled with her face to face and confirmed it over phone today. Hopefully she doesn't play games.
I did show it to my lawyer who said it could be valid without an end date, ie valid until sold. He's very plugged into this community of realtors and giving this broker too much leeway.
Although you have resolved your issue, it sounds like you might want to find a more knowledgeable lawyer. It sounds like your lawyer simply didn't know the answer and hadn't bothered to check. I doubt very much that any state allows for an open-ended listing agreement. Michigan law clearly requires a definite expiration date for a listing agreement...and that is almost certainly a standard requirement everywhere. That seems pretty basic.
Although you have resolved your issue, it sounds like you might want to find a more knowledgeable lawyer. It sounds like your lawyer simply didn't know the answer and hadn't bothered to check. I doubt very much that any state allows for an open-ended listing agreement. Michigan law clearly requires a definite expiration date for a listing agreement...and that is almost certainly a standard requirement everywhere. That seems pretty basic.
Although you have resolved your issue, it sounds like you might want to find a more knowledgeable lawyer. It sounds like your lawyer simply didn't know the answer and hadn't bothered to check. I doubt very much that any state allows for an open-ended listing agreement. Michigan law clearly requires a definite expiration date for a listing agreement...and that is almost certainly a standard requirement everywhere. That seems pretty basic.
Just curious to see what you might think of my lawyer's response on that:
"It becomes a legal issue. On one hand, the argument is that it is not valid because there is no commencement date, or term defined. On the other hand, an argument can be had that it is valid and the term starts from the date it was fully executed and since there is no term defined, it expires if and when there is a sale."
So he was making an argument for an indefinite listing period while knowing I wished to exit the contract
Just curious to see what you might think of my lawyer's response on that:
"It becomes a legal issue. On one hand, the argument is that it is not valid because there is no commencement date, or term defined. On the other hand, an argument can be had that it is valid and the term starts from the date it was fully executed and since there is no term defined, it expires if and when there is a sale."
So he was making an argument for an indefinite listing period while knowing I wished to exit the contract
Of course it's a legal issue, but I'd want to read your particular state laws to make a more precise response. Under the general Statute of Frauds all real estate contracts need to be in writing in order to be enforceable. If you thought that the listing agreement was only for 30 or 60 days, how would they counter that? They have nothing to stand on. There was no meeting of the minds--and even if there had been a verbal understanding, it needs to be in writing in order to be enforceable.
Commencement date could be a lesser issue than the expiration date, since there could be some presumption that the execution date serves as the beginning of the contract. However, a service contract needs to have an end date; you can't be bound forever.
EDIT: I think that your Broker agreed to cancel so readily because she knew that the listing agreement wasn't binding.
Last edited by jackmichigan; 05-29-2022 at 09:44 AM..
Just curious to see what you might think of my lawyer's response on that:
"It becomes a legal issue. On one hand, the argument is that it is not valid because there is no commencement date, or term defined. On the other hand, an argument can be had that it is valid and the term starts from the date it was fully executed and since there is no term defined, it expires if and when there is a sale."
So he was making an argument for an indefinite listing period while knowing I wished to exit the contract
I like "Eternal" better than "indefinite." Hope your new attorney is more focused on your needs.
Although you have resolved your issue, it sounds like you might want to find a more knowledgeable lawyer. It sounds like your lawyer simply didn't know the answer and hadn't bothered to check. I doubt very much that any state allows for an open-ended listing agreement. Michigan law clearly requires a definite expiration date for a listing agreement...and that is almost certainly a standard requirement everywhere. That seems pretty basic.
Here too.
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