Coronavirus San Antonio (merged)

[rynetwo]

Double vaccinated, but I had COVID last week and experienced the same symptoms of my unvaccinated aunt.

I’m not say they do not work because I could have been way worse, but we will never know. What I can tell you is the vaccination does not stop the spread.

I have many friends vaccinated and boosted that also came down with it over Christmas. I have to rely on antidotal evidence since our government refuses to either track or share the information.

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by Chaka

Just curious - are you also opposed to vaccines for measles(2), mumps(2), rubella(2), polio(3), Diphtheria(5), pertusssis(5), tetanus(5+ every 10 years), Hepatitis B (3), Hepatitis A(2), varicella (2), Haemophilus influenzae type b(4)?

(# of doses required)

Rubella is primarily a risk to the fetus of a pregnant unvaccinated woman who is exposed. It's a mild illness - even for the pregnant woman - but causes significant congenital issues in the fetus. In the US, we vaccinate all children at 1 year (MMR) with a booster at 4-5 years, even though it doesn't kill children. But childhood vaccination significantly decreased the number of congenital rubella cases.

Public health is about the health of all, not just ourselves.


Texas does have a growing population of anti-vaxxers who oppose all vaccines, but despite being very loud and having control of alt-right GOP legislators, they tend to still be small in number. COVID has enabled them to gain numbers though. It's like the pandemic has been their savior.

Stop using this faux argument. Those vaccinations have been proven safe and actually work.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by rynetwo

Stop using this faux argument. Those vaccinations have been proven safe and actually work.

What is the false argument?

When we first started vaccinating for varicella, only one dose was used because initial data showed that was sufficient to stop infection. However, once many people were vaccinated - enough numbers to show better data - we saw many breakthrough cases. Mostly mild, but still contagious. So we changed recommendations to 2 doses.

That's how science works. Clinical trials are done on a sample group. Once we vaccinate a larger group of people, we start to see more data and make adjustments.

Mumps efficacy is only about 88%. But because >95% of the population in most areas is vaccinated, when the virus does circulate, we see more cases in vaccinated people simply because there are more vaccinated people and for 12% of them, the vaccine isn't as effective as it needs to be. However, because so many are vaccinated the virus is less likely to circulate.

The Pertussis vaccine is between 70-90%, hence why we need 5 and then boosters are recommended.

When Measles vaccine was first introduced, only one dose was given. Later it was 2 doses, and eventually a new formulation was made which was more effective. It is not unusual for the first vaccine to be improved and modified over time.

Real World Data from both Pfizer and Moderna found 90%+ efficacy against all the strains prior to Omicron with 2 doses. Due to the mutations on omicron, we've seen a drop in efficacy with just 2 doses but a 25-fold increase in neutralizing antibodies with 3 doses. hence the recommendation for a 3rd dose.

Keep in mind these data are very new, based on just a month or so of evaluation. These data will change as more people get vaccinated both in the US and worldwide. More people vaccinated = more data.

We don't have the luxury of studying different variables over a decade without intervening with the vaccine that is available now.

We do know that both Pfizer and Moderna (and to a lesson extent J&J) decrease the likelihood one will be infected, and if infected, decrease the likelihood the virus will replicate at a high level. This is important - the more the virus can replicate, the more likely it is there will be mutations. Mutations happen, that is normal. Most do nothing. Some occasionally are beneficial to the virus. If "allowed" to replicate at high levels, there is more opportunity for the virus to develop favorable mutations. This is why community wide vaccination, even when less than perfect, is critical. More vaccination = less opportunity for the virus to create new variants that escape the current vaccines and treatments.

Unfortunately, science communication is often not as clear as it needs to be. We say that a vaccine prevents a disease - and it does, usually. But that doesn't mean it always prevents infection, it just keeps it at low enough levels to prevent the host from becoming significantly ill (again, usually, nothing is 100%). In doing so, it is also less likely to evolve to become more infectious or more severe. Most of the vaccine-preventable diseases mentioned above tend to be rare now only because most people are NOT susceptible, due to immunization.

With COVID, so many in the population are susceptible. As of yesterday, only 19% of the population of Bexar County has received 3 doses. Now, that overall pop includes kids under 5 and kids 5-15 who have not yet been approved for a 3rd dose. For those approved for 3 doses:
14% of 16-49
34% of 50-64
52% of 65-79
46% of 80+

(Data from DSHS and CDC and other published materials)

Unfortunately people were led to believe that the vaccine was a magic bullet that would end this all. Until we're at >90% of the entire population fully vaccinated - which today is 3 doses - we won't have sufficient immunity to slow the spread. And in countries where vaccination is substantially lower, there are even more opportunities for variants to arise. Until then, the vaccines are one layer of protection. I want nothing more than to "go back to normal." But as long as people choose not to vaccinate, we're years away from that.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Chaka

ately people were led to believe that the vaccine was a magic bullet that would end this all. Until we're at >90% of the entire population fully vaccinated - which today is 3 doses - we won't have sufficient immunity to slow the spread. And in countries where vaccination is substantially lower, there are even more opportunities for variants to arise. Until then, the vaccines are one layer of protection. I want nothing more than to "go back to normal." But as long as people choose not to vaccinate, we're years away from that.

Initially, it was "one and done"....then "well, you need TWO"...now it's "3 and you're free"....except it's already been shown that even those with THREE are catching it. Now what? Should we get one every 30 days and say 13 Hail Mary's?

They WILL come up with a safe, effective vaccine - of that, I'm sure. But right now, we're forcing folks to be injected with medicines made by companies that have previously been found guilty of producing ineffective/adulterated medications that are shielded from ANY legal consequences of their product failure.

Folks REALLY need to think about that. But if they want to get it, I have no argument with them - it's their choice.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

Initially, it was "one and done"....then "well, you need TWO"...now it's "3 and you're free"....except it's already been shown that even those with THREE are catching it. Now what? Should we get one every 30 days and say 13 Hail Mary's?

One correction - Pfizer and Moderna were never "one and done." They were 2-dose vaccines from the start.

Already explained how science evolves and we adjust recommendations as we learn more.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Chaka

One correction - Pfizer and Moderna were never "one and done." They were 2-dose vaccines from the start.

Already explained how science evolves and we adjust recommendations as we learn more.

....and now they're three....or more. How's that evolution working?

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

....and now they're three....or more. How's that evolution working?

There are 5 for pertussis. Viruses evolve, we adapt our defense mechanisms. Sometimes that means new vaccines, sometimes that means extra doses.

We started with 3 HPV doses and are now down to only 2 if you get it before age 15.
1 varicella became 2.

In the early 1990s there was an outbreak of measles in a mostly vaccinated young adult population. This age cohort was among the first to be vaccinated at 1 yr old. We learned there was possibly waning immunity, and recommended boosters. That's the role of public health: monitor the data, watch trends, hopefully before outbreaks occur, and recommend changes to policy to address new data.

As noted previously, part of the reason we have more variants is because the virus multiplies unchecked in a large unvaccinated population. Biology isn't absolute. That's why we keep studying it.

I am not trying to change your mind, you're definitely set against covid vaccines, but it's important to clarify misinformation. For too long we let misinformation about vaccines spread. Misinformation has the potential to be as deadly as a pandemic.