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I have been pondering the idea of packing it up and getting out of the Detroit burbs. I’ve researched this and that. I have read some of the posts here. The SJ area sounds like a good place. Is the Antioch and Oakley area growing? The east of LA/LB is booming, isn’t it? But I don’t think I want to go there. Sure the COL is high due to housing. But you don’t have the high energy bills for winter heating. Even if I had to compromise and go for something cheep in a crappy area, I am from the Detroit area. Crime? Detroit 900,000 people 3,800 cops 400 murders. SJ 900,000 people 1,800 cops 24 murders. WOW! Tell me why. You guys are chillin’. Weather? I like to ride my bicycle and motorcycle. I imagine I can ride 365 there. Since I ride I would like good roads. I have never been there but , we do have the worst in the country here and anything would be better. So SF=hills=not bicycle friendly. SJ is pretty flat? Mosquitoes? You have any? Job market? Like the roads it could only be better there. I’m currently displaced from the auto sector and since everybody and their brother is in the same boat the competition is fierce. Even for what is left. I imagine I have enough, varied experience to land something around there. Schools? Kids grown, N/A. Recreation? No big woop hear locally. I can go north to the woods and water. So I could go to the mountains or ocean there. I don’t need any hip nightlife. Earth quakes? How often do you have them?
I’m just your average Joe looking for good weather, peace and quiet and a decent way of life. It sucks here.
The SJ area? Tell me, why not?
I have been pondering the idea of packing it up and getting out of the Detroit burbs. I’ve researched this and that. I have read some of the posts here. The SJ area sounds like a good place. Is the Antioch and Oakley area growing?
I don't know much about Oakley, but Antioch still isn't very nice from what I've heard... not as dangerous as certain other East Bay towns (like Oakland & Richmond, for example), but it's not the nicest either! San Jose metro has lots of decent places to live, especially around the Sunnyvale & Santa Clara neighborhoods. It's very suburban in those towns, but they are safe, and more affordable than the Peninsula or SF. I also like Mountain View, Campbell, Cupertino, Menlo Park, and Los Gatos (more expensive).
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Weather? I like to ride my bicycle and motorcycle. I imagine I can ride 365 there. Since I ride I would like good roads. I have never been there but , we do have the worst in the country here and anything would be better. So SF=hills=not bicycle friendly. SJ is pretty flat? Mosquitoes? You have any?
As far as weather goes, we have tons of "micro-climates" here, especially in Northern California... it gets pretty chilly at the coast, like around San Francisco, Pacifica, Santa Cruz, Half Moon Bay, etc. Inland is much warmer in the summer, but can get quite cold in the winter. And fog is another problem, which we get through most of the Bay Area & Central Valley. Daytime is usually nice though, and you could probably ride a bike about 9-10 months of the year. We get pretty rainy from January - March!! Mosquitos aren't a big issue here, unless you head into the deep central valley or mountains... even then, it's nothing compared to the east coast & midwest. I was born in Maryland, and remember how awful they were out there. Finally, yes San Francisco is a bit hilly for bikes!! Many other Bay Area towns are hilly too, so check the elevations & topography before settling on a place (if biking is very important to you).
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Job market? Like the roads it could only be better there. I’m currently displaced from the auto sector and since everybody and their brother is in the same boat the competition is fierce. Even for what is left. I imagine I have enough, varied experience to land something around there. Schools? Kids grown, N/A. Recreation? No big woop hear locally. I can go north to the woods and water. So I could go to the mountains or ocean there. I don’t need any hip nightlife.
As you said, the job market could be better... we still have plenty of opportunities in the high-tech market, since Silicon Valley isn't dead by any means. Not sure about auto sector, but I'm sure you could find something. It's a very big metro area, if you include everything from San Jose to SF, North Bay, etc.... so there has to be something! Check our local newspapers, craigslist, SFGate, and any nationwide job databases for listings.
There is plenty of recreation around here, with just about anything you could imagine. No matter where in the Bay Area you live, there's always something nearby to do! The ocean is obviously very close (depending on where exactly you are), Sierra Nevada mountains are about 3-4 hours away, the Redwood forests 4-5 hours, Napa/wine country within an hour or so, and Yosemite National Park is only 2-3 hours from the Peninsula/SJ area. Not bad, eh?
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Earth quakes? How often do you have them?
I’m just your average Joe looking for good weather, peace and quiet and a decent way of life. It sucks here.
The SJ area? Tell me, why not?
Earthquakes literally happen every day, but you'll rarely feel them... anything under a 3.5-4.0 is considered insignificant, and you won't even notice they've happened. I've lived here (on & off) for 23 years, and have only felt a few really big ones - Loma Prieta in '89 was scary!! Last one I noticed was about 3 months ago, when a 4.5 hit near Gilroy... before that, I can't remember one for many years. Anyway, it's nothing to worry about, and I actually find the smaller ones to be kinda fun! Take a look at this site, if you don't think it'll scare you off - http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/....-125.-115.php
You can see that we've had almost 300 earthquakes this week in California, but I didn't feel a single one.
So.... good things & bad things about this area? Good - Weather, nice & unique people, night-life, diversity, culture, liberal politics (which I consider good, but others might not ), job opportunities, educational opportunities, social life, scenery, location. Bad - Housing costs/cost of living, traffic, road-ragers, crime in some areas, urban congestion, and fog can be a problem if you don't like it. Hope this all helps!
I should add one thing... while many of our towns are "bike-friendly", you will need a car to get around easily! Californians are notoriously car-dependent, and there's a reason why - public transportation is pretty bad, even in the city of SF (though it's slightly okay there), and everything is very spread out & often hilly. Just going to the market can be a 15 minute drive, no matter where you live. I couldn't imagine not having a car, though I guess it can be done. You might consider buying something cheap, and selling it before moving back... I have a friend who came here from NYC for a summer job, and he bought an old truck which was sold before he returned to New York.
Thanks for the detailed reply. You did not give me a reason why not. Thank you.
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but can get quite cold in the winter
What? Where? How cold? It's been toasty around here lately, but we're way off the norm. I'm kinda ok with the cold but not with the heat, so Sacramento is probably out of the question. But the foggy stuff gets into the SJ area? I do want to be near the water but , yea, not that close like SF and Santa Cruz. Earthquakes, I might find it interesting more than scary. I think. I guess I'd have to ride a big one to find out. Seeing the video of the one in Kobe, that looks tough.
During my researching I think I seen the touting of "bicycle friendly" on the SJ city website. Maybe due to the flat(ter than SF) terrain of the city. I just want to have the ability to do a 10 mile ride every other day, year round. Oh, I could not imagine existing without a motor vehicle. Public transport?
What's that?
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Good - Weather, nice & unique people, night-life, diversity, culture, liberal politics (which I consider good, but others might not ), job opportunities, educational opportunities, social life, scenery, location.
Weather, check. Nice people? Again, what are those? Unique people, we have that. I think feel I would be more comfortable with the racial diversity of the Bay area more than the LA/LB and SD areas.
Apart form the housing costs, what would be the other COLs that would be a noticeable difference? Night life, N/A. Culture? Again, what's that. Yes please. Politics. I vote. But that's about it. Opportunities. yes please. Social life. Well, what specifically. I did read the article in a health mag about the area having a greater number of physically fit individuals, when compared to other metros. What, you have to pay too much for housing and can't afford to eat. Ha. Scenery. The bleakness of winter along with the old down-trodden areas here and there, you got this beat. Location. Uh, Yea.
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traffic, road-ragers, crime in some areas, urban congestion
Traffic, it isn't as bad as the LA area, is it? Road-ragers. We have that too. Crime? Well it isn't that bad in my area but the city of Detroit has 400 murders a year. I don't think the whole Bay area has half of that. 96 in SF and 24 in SJ. Urban congestion. That's just SF?
Again, thanks for the info
What? Where? How cold? It's been toasty around here lately, but we're way off the norm. I'm kinda ok with the cold but not with the heat, so Sacramento is probably out of the question. But the foggy stuff gets into the SJ area? I do want to be near the water but , yea, not that close like SF and Santa Cruz. Earthquakes, I might find it interesting more than scary. I think. I guess I'd have to ride a big one to find out. Seeing the video of the one in Kobe, that looks tough.
Don't worry... coming from Detroit, you'll laugh at what we consider cold. Lately it's been officially "chilly", with highs in the low 50s & lows in the 30s. It even dropped into the mid-20s last week, which is unheard of around here! But generally in the Bay Area, it doesn't drop much below 40 degrees. Summers are mild here, especially around the coast... but the Central Valley is definitely hot. I lived in Stockton for 3 years, and it often stayed between 95-100 for weeks at a time - highest temp I saw was 113! But it's a "dry heat", so at least there's no east-coast humidity to endure. Anyway, you basically get hotter & drier the farther you get from the ocean... when you hit the mountains (Tahoe, i.e.), it gets much more seasonal & snowy. So just figure this into the location of towns you're considering.
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During my researching I think I seen the touting of "bicycle friendly" on the SJ city website. Maybe due to the flat(ter than SF) terrain of the city. I just want to have the ability to do a 10 mile ride every other day, year round. Oh, I could not imagine existing without a motor vehicle. Public transport?
What's that?
Yes, San Jose is generally flatter than other parts of the Bay Area... but it gets kind of hilly as you head west. Here's the basic rule about the Peninsula - it starts flat at the Bay, and gets hillier the closer you are to the ocean (then it drops quickly). If you're looking at areas around highway 101, El Camino Real, and the 880/580/etc. corridor, it will be fairly flat. If you live closer to highways 280 & 1, expect to be huffing & puffing!!
Public transportation on the Peninsula is pretty bad... we just have SamTrans, which only goes on the main roads (like El Camino, Hillsdale, Alameda, etc.), and CalTrain. You can get to all the "important" places on these, but be prepared to do some walking/biking too. South Bay has the VTA, which I don't know much about... and I'm not sure of the East Bay, but they do have BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) in most towns. BART is probably our best system, but unfortunately it only services SF, East Bay & a tiny part of the North Peninsula. Sorry I can't offer more details, but I've always had a car!
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Weather, check. Nice people? Again, what are those? Unique people, we have that. I think feel I would be more comfortable with the racial diversity of the Bay area more than the LA/LB and SD areas.
What are nice people? Well, I guess we just have an overall friendly demeanor, though there are also jerks of course! I'm not sure of your political leanings, but I'm very left-wing, which is more common around here... so for me, I feel very comfortable with the general attitude of Bay Area folks. Someone who is really conservative might feel otherwise, so I guess it's a relative opinion. As for racial diversity, you'll see a bit of everything here... our "primary" ethnic groups (other than caucasian) are Latino and Asian, and each town has it's own make-up. But it's not tooo segregated, and you'll find a fairly nice mix in most areas. Whatever culture you enjoy being around, I'm sure you can find it here! In comparison to southern California, obviously they have a higher Latino population... we're just slightly more diverse, depending on where exactly you live. I love the diversity, since it gives us a "flavor" of almost everything.
Apart form the housing costs, what would be the other COLs that would be a noticeable difference? Night life, N/A. Culture? Again, what's that. Yes please. Politics. I vote. But that's about it. Opportunities. yes please. Social life. Well, what specifically. I did read the article in a health mag about the area having a greater number of physically fit individuals, when compared to other metros. What, you have to pay too much for housing and can't afford to eat. Ha. Scenery. The bleakness of winter along with the old down-trodden areas here and there, you got this beat. Location. Uh, Yea.
I don't know the COL in Detroit, but I'd assume most everything is higher here! Gas is quite expensive (currently about $2.50-2.80), cover-charges are usually $10-15 for a nicer club, taxes are high, etc. Culture? Well, we've got just about everything! Museums of every kind, opera, ballet, symphony, theatre, sports, big-arena concerts, amusement parks, great shopping, bars, you name it. Of course the big cities have the most, and San Francisco is really our "cultural mecca" - but you can find smaller versions of everything in the suburbs.
Our social scene is standard big city stuff... people are generally too busy for the small-town community activities, but you should be able to make friends easily. Just find people who share a common interest, and be friendly! California is more health-conscious than most states, so you're right about that... join a gym or sporting group, and you can meet others through that.
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Traffic, it isn't as bad as the LA area, is it? Road-ragers. We have that too. Crime? Well it isn't that bad in my area but the city of Detroit has 400 murders a year. I don't think the whole Bay area has half of that. 96 in SF and 24 in SJ. Urban congestion. That's just SF?
Again, thanks for the info
Technically speaking, the traffic in LA is worse, since they have more drivers on the road... you can literally sit still for hours on their freeways, where you'll move slowly on ours. But I swear, our drivers have more road-rage!! I've driven in LA, and they really seem to just go along with things. I guess they're more accustomed to the traffic, and deal with it a little better. Around here, we get the chronic weavers (with no turn signal, of course), tailgaters, bright-flashers, bird-flippers, etc... and that's if you're going less than 80 in the left lane. As a result of growing up here, I'm a pretty aggressive, fast & sometimes obnoxious driver - even though I try not to be! You might be more likely to get shot from LA road-rage, but we're going to ride your a-- until you switch lanes.
Crime in the Bay Area really depends on where you live, since we have a wide range. I'm currently in a town that rivals Detroit, and was actually named "murder capital of the U.S." three years straight... we're so proud, LOL. But 1 mile away, there's a town that's probably one of the safest in the state. So it just depends on where you settle, and really how much you can afford. Okay, that's my LONG answer... hope this answers all your questions!
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
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I think you will find that the bay area as a whole is better than Detroit on all the things you asked for. Except for cost of living of course. There are a few areas you might want to avoid, but overall it's pretty good. Gizmo lives in east palo alto, a city trying to change it's image and is changing for the good alrady. New houses with yuppies moving in, and new stores such as Ikea, Home Depot Expo, Circuit city, etc. Of course crossing over the freeway to palo alto a few blocks and all of a sudden homes are in the milliuons with lots of nitelife and Stanford University.
You mentioned Antioch and oakley. The old part of Antioch is somewhat decaying in parts, but on the southside of Hwy 4 it has been booming. Lots of new homes and shopping areas, Prices have gone crazy but with the RE slowdown there are a lot of homes on the market. In the summer it can hit 90's easily, but remember out humidity is lower so it prolly won't seem that hot to you.
A car is esential in the bay area. There aren't many areas that have so much diversity within an hours drive. Beaches, san francisco, san jose. It ranges from cooler redwood forests to beaches to city to rolling dry hills with lots of Oak trees. If you can't make friends here and find things to do, then I would probably say you can't do that anywhere.
I live south of Antioch. Crime is very low, schools very good, and upper middle class. In my town we don't see homeless people and a murder happens once every two years.
I see lots of bicyclists around the areas and lots of bike clubs.
If you can afford to live here you should definitely spend a week out here exploring. If you lived in detroit and survived winter, there is no where here that will seem cold to you. This area has everything - traffic and cost of living are the only real drawbacks.
Good luck
I think you will find that the bay area as a whole is better than Detroit on all the things you asked for. Except for cost of living of course. There are a few areas you might want to avoid, but overall it's pretty good. Gizmo lives in east palo alto, a city trying to change it's image and is changing for the good alrady. New houses with yuppies moving in, and new stores such as Ikea, Home Depot Expo, Circuit city, etc. Of course crossing over the freeway to palo alto a few blocks and all of a sudden homes are in the milliuons with lots of nitelife and Stanford University.
How did you know I live in EPA? (yeah, I know it was obvious to a local - LOL). My town is trying to clean things up, but it's still pretty bad in most parts... I actually live in the nicest part, west of 101, and we've had 3 murders on my block in the last year. I can't walk at night without my dog, or people will harass me - ask for money, offer crack, "leer", etc. So I'd hardly say that IKEA, Best Buy & Four Seasons made a big difference! Of course it's improved since the '80s-90s, but I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wants a safe neighborhood. Though I chose to live here, so won't complain about my own situation... there are actually some positives about EPA, since I do enjoy the diversity & there are some great people around here. Plus you can't beat the price!
Oh, but here's a sad story about how bad it still is... I taught ESL/Literacy to low-income EPA students last year, and for Martin Luther King Day, they had to write their own "I have a dream" speech. One of my adorable 9-year old girls wrote the following - "I have a dream that there will be no more gangs or drugs, and that I'll be a princess one day." I had to fight back the tears when I read that. We also had the kids write letters when a local police officer was killed (very sad, the guy was only about 24 years old & had a baby), and I read some awful stuff about their experiences with death & murder. Sorry to be a downer, but I just don't want anyone to forget we still have problems here... I constantly hear people saying "I've heard that EPA is nice now!", just because we have some new shops & a fancy hotel. Not saying you're doing that, but I hear it all the time!! If they all think we're fine, they'll stop trying to help and forget we're even here... know what I mean?
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A car is esential in the bay area. There aren't many areas that have so much diversity within an hours drive. Beaches, san francisco, san jose. It ranges from cooler redwood forests to beaches to city to rolling dry hills with lots of Oak trees. If you can't make friends here and find things to do, then I would probably say you can't do that anywhere.
I agree with all of that! I lost my license for 6 months as a teenager (I was a stupid 16-year old driver, hehe), and it was REALLY tough having to depend on public transportation... not only do we have great things an hour+ away, but it's also incredibly difficult to get around your own town without a car. I'd suggest (to the original poster) buying a really cheap car, as long as it runs reliably, and then selling it if/when you move back. My friend came out here from NYC for a summer internship one year, and that's what he did... he bought a really old pick-up truck, drove the heck out of it all summer, and then sold it to a used lot w/ a small loss. In his opinion it was well worth the money, especially since he was staying at my mom's house in the hills... the bus doesn't even go near her place, so he would've been really inconvenienced. Anyway, just wanted to say I agree with your post! And glad to hear that Antioch is shaping up nicely.
Eek! I just checked our lastest crime data in EPA, and there were a total of 15 murders last year (2005)... and this is a town of only 29,000 people!! Looks like our crime dropped briefly from 2001-2004, and then shot up (no pun intended, lol) in the last year. Wonder why?
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Finally, yes San Francisco is a bit hilly for bikes!! Many other Bay Area towns are hilly too, so check the elevations & topography before settling on a place (if biking is very important to you).
Not sure about auto sector, but I'm sure you could find something. It's a very big metro area, if you include everything from San Jose to SF, North Bay, etc.... so there has to be something! Check our local newspapers, craigslist, SFGate, and any nationwide job databases for listings.
Take a look at this site, if you don't think it'll scare you off - 
The long story... ;)
Sorry I can't offer more details, but I've always had a car!
Well, I guess we just have an overall friendly demeanor, though there are also jerks of course! I'm not sure of your political leanings, but I'm very left-wing, which is more common around here... so for me, I feel very comfortable with the general attitude of Bay Area folks. Someone who is really conservative might feel otherwise, so I guess it's a relative opinion. As for racial diversity, you'll see a bit of everything here... our "primary" ethnic groups (other than caucasian) are Latino and Asian, and each town has it's own make-up. But it's not tooo segregated, and you'll find a fairly nice mix in most areas. Whatever culture you enjoy being around, I'm sure you can find it here! In comparison to southern California, obviously they have a higher Latino population... we're just slightly more diverse, depending on where exactly you live. I love the diversity, since it gives us a "flavor" of almost everything. 
As a result of growing up here, I'm a pretty aggressive, fast & sometimes obnoxious driver - even though I try not to be! You might be more likely to get shot from LA road-rage, but we're going to ride your a-- until you switch lanes. 
(yeah, I know it was obvious to a local - LOL). My town is trying to clean things up, but it's still pretty bad in most parts... I actually live in the nicest part, west of 101, and we've had 3 murders on my block in the last year. I can't walk at night without my dog, or people will harass me - ask for money, offer crack, "leer", etc. So I'd hardly say that IKEA, Best Buy & Four Seasons made a big difference! Of course it's improved since the '80s-90s, but I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wants a safe neighborhood. Though I chose to live here, so won't complain about my own situation... there are actually some positives about EPA, since I do enjoy the diversity & there are some great people around here. Plus you can't beat the price!
