.22 catridges as money (farming, grain, light, negative)
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Oh really? Absurd commentary? Go to the gun site in this forum and present your theories, please. We would love to hear them. Sure, it will kill. A spitball will kill a man under the proper circumstances. But a gun is a tool, and you use the proper tool for a job. You can use a shoe to hammer a nail as well, but it's not a proper tool.
If that's all you got, then fine. I am not disparaging .22 owners. It's a good tool for the purpose it serves, most .22 rifles are reliable and dependable, and ammo is cheap. But a .22 is not the proper tool for anything other than small game, it is not a proper tool for self defense. That's a fact, not opinion.
Yea, you got the Rambo thing going yourself I see, thinking that one needs a 44 magnum to kill a person or a large animal. And, if there is anything one might say about .22's, it is not as you said that they are "reliable or dependable." In fact, they are the opposite of that. Anyone knows that rimfire cartridges are undependable and unreliable. So, I think we get the drift about your knowledge on the subject.
As for effectiveness, however, it is likely that you have never shot any mammal if that is your opinion. I guaranty that I could kill a man with a .22LR from 30 feet. Can a .22 LR stop a 200 pound survival trained guy who is trying to kill you? Probably not. But that is not the question here.
The question is whether .22 cartridges make good trading material in a SHTF situation. They do. And, they do for a reason. And, that reason is that despite their weaknesses, a .22 is the best survival ammo there is because it can be shot out of anything from a car antenna to a bamboo reed. And, 5000 cartridges fit in a coffee can. And, most everyone who is interested in survival has a .22.
I am proud to own one of the original Armalite AR-7's and I am sure the US Military did not spec it in the 60's so that their downed pilots could occupy themselves plinking at targets or shooting squirrels.
And, if there is anything one might say about .22's, it is not as you said that they are "reliable or dependable." In fact, they are the opposite of that. Anyone knows that rimfire cartridges are undependable and unreliable.... .22 is the best survival ammo there is because it can be shot out of anything from a car antenna to a bamboo reed. And, 5000 cartridges fit in a coffee can. And, most everyone who is interested in survival has a .22.
Full of contradictions. But you don't get off that easy, I don't care if you can't decide yourself if a 22 is good or bad. Lets get to the point - what is "absurd" about my statement that a .22 is best only for small game and plinking? If you disagree, state why, and don't misdirect the subject. That's a losers way out of a debate.
Your posts chest pounding aside no one know what they will do when faced with killing another human until they either pull the trigger or not. Because from that moment on they will not be the same person........they will have become a predator
I read so far as post 18 before I had to reply. I am sort of off line a lot more than I like these days..
But I disagree, since I have shot a man in selfdefence in my past and am no sort of predator, and hope to never be. I don't see you or SCGranny becoming predators for the mere will to survie either.
I do agree that there is a lot of arm chair war talk and chest pounding, but SC Granny makes a lot of sence. You may, but I haven't the pleasure to read you much. You came on line here as I was getting off line, not by my choice. mac
edited to say it was not an act of war in my case.........
As to .22's being used to barter yes, as a form of money no.....
Full of contradictions. But you don't get off that easy, I don't care if you can't decide yourself if a 22 is good or bad. Lets get to the point - what is "absurd" about my statement that a .22 is best only for small game and plinking? If you disagree, state why, and don't misdirect the subject. That's a losers way out of a debate.
No, your personal attack was the loser's way out. The last refuge of a failed argument.
You must not have read my post if you didn't pick up why your remark was absurd:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513
Yea, you got the Rambo thing going yourself I see, thinking that one needs a 44 magnum to kill a person or a large animal. And, if there is anything one might say about .22's, it is not as you said that they are "reliable or dependable." In fact, they are the opposite of that. Anyone knows that rimfire cartridges are undependable and unreliable. So, I think we get the drift about your knowledge on the subject.
As for effectiveness, however, it is likely that you have never shot any mammal if that is your opinion. I guaranty that I could kill a man with a .22LR from 30 feet. Can a .22 LR stop a 200 pound survival trained guy who is trying to kill you? Probably not. But that is not the question here.
The question is whether .22 cartridges make good trading material in a SHTF situation. They do. And, they do for a reason. And, that reason is that despite their weaknesses, a .22 is the best survival ammo there is because it can be shot out of anything from a car antenna to a bamboo reed. And, 5000 cartridges fit in a coffee can. And, most everyone who is interested in survival has a .22.
I am proud to own one of the original Armalite AR-7's and I am sure the US Military did not spec it in the 60's so that their downed pilots could occupy themselves plinking at targets or shooting squirrels.
The remark is absurd because no one is going to stock .357 magnum cartridges as SHTF currency. 99% of the people would have no use for them, they are expensive as hell and useless for many of the SHTF tasks. In the situations that we plan for, the .22LR is the cartridge of choice and it is the right one. If we were talking about CC or a home invasion it would be a different situation. It is not "plinking or target practice" that we envision.
Sugah, I don't think too many folks will be thinking only about the "animal population" in the use of .22 cartridges.
I actually have several 'long rifles'. I prefer a .22 for varmint work; the sound is muted and the effect can be devastating if you have good placement. While blowing great big holes in things gives one a visceral successful feeling, like Steve Martin said in "My Blue Heaven" -
"Richie loved to use 22s because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you're dead."
As an EMT I have seen this and know it to be true.... once we went to a "shots fired" call and the very fat man was lying in the doorway, dead. Because we did not see any exterior wounds, and he was still warm, protocol demanded that we start CPR. It wasn't until we got the blood flowing that we found a tiny hole in the side of his neck that turned out later to be from a .22 that pierced his carotid. I have worked several .22 shootings where later autopsies showed that the bullets ricocheted off of bones and into soft tissue, leaving trails of destruction. One fellow was shot in the chest while he was standing up; the coroner later found the bullet lodged next to his rectum. ("Wrecked him? It killed him!")
My neighbors and I often talk about ammo and accessories; if one of us is going to Cabela's or a gun show, we will pick up such needed items for each other. It's more than conceivable that things like chocolate, booze, and cartridges will become good barter items. Someone might kill you for your gold and silver, but if you have cartridges, it's a safe bet that you also have what they go into, and are able to put them together with some success.
In a clear economic collapse I think they'll be useful in the shortrun (and bigger rounds), but if the economy doesn't collapse but painfully lingers downward for a long period of time, then I would stock even more .22 lr to insure there's some leftover post-SHTF. But before I go and stock more, I need to make sure I'm completely covered food and energy-wise, which may not happend until its to late to be honest lol.
.................What worries me the that of all the items needed for any sort of survival is centered on guns and ammo. Does that mean all we're supposed to do to survive is kill each other for scraps left from a former civilization?
Nothing is discussed on rebuilding a community that works together for common survival.
Probably because this thread topic was specific to .22LR stocking for barter currency.
No, your personal attack was the loser's way out. The last refuge of a failed argument.
You must not have read my post if you didn't pick up why your remark was absurd:
The remark is absurd because no one is going to stock .357 magnum cartridges as SHTF currency. 99% of the people would have no use for them, they are expensive as hell and useless for many of the SHTF tasks. In the situations that we plan for, the .22LR is the cartridge of choice and it is the right one. If we were talking about CC or a home invasion it would be a different situation. It is not "plinking or target practice" that we envision.
Personal attack? What in the world are you talking about?
No one mentioned .357 cartridges at all - except you - so I will disregard that statement as nonsensical and another attempt by you at misdirection. But I already adressed the positive benifits of the .22 being a common ammo, as well as the disadvantages of it (as you have as well). But the truth is that a firearm will be required to perform all sorts of tasks during what you describe as a SHTF situation, including home invasion and CC tasks. Weather a .22 will fit that situation is, at best, subject to interpretation by each individual. Or will it be a pump shotgun, AR15, MR garand, SKS, or a combination of 2 or more - it really needs it's own topic as it's somewhat off the OP's topic goals. Still, again I affirm that in it's current function in today's world - it's a plinking and small game tool. A consideration I was not picking up on in the first few pages of this post.
There is alot of passion when one talks about firearms, people get emotional and defensive. Not sure why. It's a tool - first and foremost. One should approach it as such.
SHTF huh? You guys are funny. Dreaming about the day the SHTF and you're the king of the hill because you have more Ammo than anyone else. So, in this event are you saying that Ammo Mfgs are going to start printing money? Can someone expand this and explain a bit more in detail?
I'm not much of a munitions expert, but I know Copper/Steel/powder amongst other things make up this new world currency. They need be mined or refined. Miners still need to be paid, but instead of $$'s now in... Ammo? The mined material to produce the ammunition are bought by ammo mfgs from foudaries using... Ammo? to produce ammo which is sold for...Ammo??
SHTF huh? You guys are funny. Dreaming about the day the SHTF and you're the king of the hill because you have more Ammo than anyone else. So, in this event are you saying that Ammo Mfgs are going to start printing money? Can someone expand this and explain a bit more in detail?
I'm not much of a munitions expert, but I know Copper/Steel/powder amongst other things make up this new world currency. They need be mined or refined. Miners still need to be paid, but instead of $$'s now in... Ammo? The mined material to produce the ammunition are bought by ammo mfgs from foudaries using... Ammo? to produce ammo which is sold for...Ammo??
excuse me? I dont think anyone on this forum dreams about SHTF coming. we just prepare in case something happens. like an insurance plan, people have car, home, life and medicle insurance, then why not have food insurance in case something happens.
kayo, I am old enough to have spent silver dollars, once as common as tooth paste. It's been a long time since a silver dollar was worth a dollar though. A basic fear these days is that the paper note you call a dollar won't be worth anything, and depending on how you look at it it might not be worth much right now. An example might be that a pre-1965 25 cent piece made of 90% silver the rest copper is worth something like $3.40ish, and not real far off what a gallon of gas costs today.
What makes that interesting is I can also recall gas at $0.25.
Your miners just might not go to work when it takes $45.00 to buy one loaf of bread, IF that will get you a loaf of bread at all.
At such a time and no one knows if that time will come, a Royal mess of .22's on hand won't be a bad thing to have set aside. There won't be anymore made of them and a whole lot of what people these days consider important to 'live'.
Barter always depends on what it is you want, and what the person who has it wants. So say 2 guys meet to trade and one guy wants something more to set a deal, it might be a handfull of .22's added with close that deal, and even if both guys are loaded down in .22's. This would be like 'change', as coins.
Guns and ammo in hard times would be good to have as well, but they might not get used as often as some people may think. Once I lived off the land for over 1,095 days and hardly ever 'fired a gun', but having one didn't harm me a bit.
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