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With the exception of handgun calibers that have 600 plus foot-pounds of energy, pistol ammunition is low powered. I took two slugs at point blank range from a .38 Special firing 158-grain semi wad cutter +P+ hollow points also known as “The FBI load.” It took 10 – 15 minutes for my injuries to incapacitate me. If I’d have been armed, I could have fired back. I took a hit to the groin and small of the back. Yes, my injuries would have been fatal without medical attention, but the bottom line here is that most pistol calibers dispatch people in the same manner as stabbing instruments in that they cause serious injury and most people bleed to death, which takes time…
I carried concealed for about ten years. Without situational awareness, it's easy to be caught unaware. It takes far more time to draw a concealed firearm than one that's in a holster on your hip, but again, situational awareness is nearly the entire portion of the equation.
The topic starter seems to be stuck on .22 rim fire, and that’s his/her choice. While better than nothing, there are a lot of better options out there. Side arms are fine, and there are situations that present themselves where a person wanting to be armed can only carry a side arm. For example, performing many chores that require both hands and carrying a rifle slung over one’s back could prove too cumbersome. They can also be used as back up. However, a pistol would not be my first choice for self-defense. Especially in the SHTF scenario that everybody seems to be concerned with.
If you’re on the east coast, having a pistol and carbine that both shoot .357 would be a good option and or a short barreled 12 gauge pump action also known as a riot gun. Pick up a reloading kit, stock up on lead and bullet molds, and the necessary supplies to reload. Then one could shoot cheaply, it’s effective on animals up to black bear, and should things go south, then you’re already prepared. I do understand that there are areas that require a flat shooting rifle with at least 3000 ft pounds of muzzle energy, but for most of us it’s not needed. The ubiquitous 30/30 would be another good choice. It can be loaded with full power loads as well as cast 110-grain bullets, about 9 grains of Unique, and it moves along at about 1,000 – 1,300 fps. Many rural homes in America have a 30/30 and at least one box of shells, so if we see something that causes a massive death toll, one should easily find a 30/30 and ammunition and or empty shells for reloading. If you’re not reloading, you’re wasting your money, you could shoot more, and it’s also a hobby onto itself.
On the same topic as reloading, if a SHTF scenario plays out, ammunition will become valuable. Hence, one could barter/trade for things they don’t have. Booze, cigarettes, and ammunition will probably command rather hefty fees.
The one thing that bothers me most about preppers that I personally know is that they seem to think that buying guns and ammo will see them through, yet they don’t bother to shoot the thing. If you’re not going to bother becoming proficient with whatever firearm you have, what’s the point? It’s nothing more than an iron teddy bear.
...I heard .38, do I hear .45? Going Once! Going twice...
Have you shot people or have you been shot yourself? the 45 what? ACP, Cold Long, or some other caliber? Are we talking about factory loads or hand loads. How long is the barrel? The .45 ACP is slightly more effective than the .38 Special. Your methods of debate have the familiar aroma of arm chair expert rather than actual experience. Take a look at FBI statistics, pistol bullets kill in the same manner as knives. They bleed you to death, and that takes time. There are a few exceptions to that rule, but the .45 ACP isn't one of them.
I am a 1911 .45 ACP fanboy by the way, and the most effective load for this caliber would be from the 185 grain hollow point moving with a muzzle velocity of 1,100 fps from 5" barrel.
Last edited by bolillo_loco; 09-12-2012 at 02:40 PM..
I have a 45-70 shooting 405 grain solid loads, does that count?? Don't want to get shot with that one either.
Excellent post bolillo_loco and I heartily agree about the 30-30. It is a caliber that is everywhere in my state, and if loaded with 150 or 180 grain loads, from close range they do work for elk as a hunting round.
A little light for heavy boned and animals with thick hides so you have to be a good marksman to make those kind of kills, but it is still a good standby caliber and with its light recoil a woman or kid can handle them well too.
I have a 45-70 shooting 405 grain solid loads, does that count?? Don't want to get shot with that one either.
Excellent post bolillo_loco and I heartily agree about the 30-30. It is a caliber that is everywhere in my state, and if loaded with 150 or 180 grain loads, from close range they do work for elk as a hunting round.
A little light for heavy boned and animals with thick hides so you have to be a good marksman to make those kind of kills, but it is still a good standby caliber and with its light recoil a woman or kid can handle them well too.
I agree, despite the fact that it's everywhere, the 30/30 is probably the most overlooked firearm. In today's age of marketing and Hollywood, everybody's bought into the high capacity semi-auto black rifle syndrome... For those wanting a little more power, there's always the 30/30 Ackely Improved and a rather new wildcat the 30/30 GNR. The thing that shocked me about the 30/30 was how popular it was in Canada as well, and I've talked to more than one Canadian that uses the thing on Grizzlys and other large game. I don't know whether they're obviously excellent marksmen and experienced hunters or foolish, but apparently it's pretty common up there.
The other thing I find baffling is how many firearms enthusiasts don't bother with reloading because they think it's too expensive to get into or they just lack the interest. My first turret press was given to me for free by my neighbor. Somebody scrapped it at the salvage yard where he worked... Craig's list, relatives, friends, and flea markets are good sources for inexpensive reloading gear. I guess some people just don't bother with it. I sent an online virtual friend an entire reloading kit for free. Since I have a Dillion 550, I didn't need the RCBS rockchucker O press, so I passed it on, but the guy's had it a year now and he still hasn't reloaded... All he needs are dies, but he'd rather complain about the price of commercial ammunition...
With the exception of handgun calibers that have 600 plus foot-pounds of energy, pistol ammunition is low powered. I took two slugs at point blank range from a .38 Special firing 158-grain semi wad cutter +P+ hollow points also known as “The FBI load.” It took 10 – 15 minutes for my injuries to incapacitate me. If I’d have been armed, I could have fired back. I took a hit to the groin and small of the back. Yes, my injuries would have been fatal without medical attention, but the bottom line here is that most pistol calibers dispatch people in the same manner as stabbing instruments in that they cause serious injury and most people bleed to death, which takes time…
I carried concealed for about ten years. Without situational awareness, it's easy to be caught unaware. It takes far more time to draw a concealed firearm than one that's in a holster on your hip, but again, situational awareness is nearly the entire portion of the equation.
The topic starter seems to be stuck on .22 rim fire, and that’s his/her choice. While better than nothing, there are a lot of better options out there. Side arms are fine, and there are situations that present themselves where a person wanting to be armed can only carry a side arm. For example, performing many chores that require both hands and carrying a rifle slung over one’s back could prove too cumbersome. They can also be used as back up. However, a pistol would not be my first choice for self-defense. Especially in the SHTF scenario that everybody seems to be concerned with.
If you’re on the east coast, having a pistol and carbine that both shoot .357 would be a good option and or a short barreled 12 gauge pump action also known as a riot gun. Pick up a reloading kit, stock up on lead and bullet molds, and the necessary supplies to reload. Then one could shoot cheaply, it’s effective on animals up to black bear, and should things go south, then you’re already prepared. I do understand that there are areas that require a flat shooting rifle with at least 3000 ft pounds of muzzle energy, but for most of us it’s not needed. The ubiquitous 30/30 would be another good choice. It can be loaded with full power loads as well as cast 110-grain bullets, about 9 grains of Unique, and it moves along at about 1,000 – 1,300 fps. Many rural homes in America have a 30/30 and at least one box of shells, so if we see something that causes a massive death toll, one should easily find a 30/30 and ammunition and or empty shells for reloading. If you’re not reloading, you’re wasting your money, you could shoot more, and it’s also a hobby onto itself.
On the same topic as reloading, if a SHTF scenario plays out, ammunition will become valuable. Hence, one could barter/trade for things they don’t have. Booze, cigarettes, and ammunition will probably command rather hefty fees.
The one thing that bothers me most about preppers that I personally know is that they seem to think that buying guns and ammo will see them through, yet they don’t bother to shoot the thing. If you’re not going to bother becoming proficient with whatever firearm you have, what’s the point? It’s nothing more than an iron teddy bear.
Great post, wish i could rep you too. I have a 1965 winniw in 30-30 made of pre 64 parts
Like my .45acp's too but wish they hit harder and flew farther... I bought a Kimber to replace the Remington Rand I still carry that old Rand.
My point to the .22 fan was that the Handguns have their place and are very effective.
Probably so far this is the most fair thing you said on this thread to date. I jump from .45 acp to .22, with no other ammo types for hand guns in a serious way, while I own a few other hand guns.
But for carry it is one of (3) .45's and one of (2) .22's as back up, and sometimes only one of the .22's at all depending on what i can wear, and if i must go naked nothing at all, but that's what naked is right?
Yeah you can make someone very ill with 5 or more .22's, and that will for sure slow a man with bad intent down, but will it really stop him?
More or less the way i see things is i carry a hand gun because i can't carry a cop, and I would carry a rifle but the cops have already stopped me for that and it's a big waste of time unless you can share a few laffs with the cop.
In other words the hand gun is for going to get the gun you should have had in the first place.
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Don't want to get shot with that one either.
