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There are all levels of prepping...not all for a doomsday scenario!
Being prepared is a good thing...storms, riots, power outages, job loss, Internet down...yes that can be a problem too with a predominantly cashless society...carry emergency cash. ...not everything leads to a Mad Max world.
What what what? No internet? What will happen to all the City Data folks that B itch about everything?
...Just look at this thread there are those posting in a prepping forum who look down on us. How long do you think they would last? Not long, they can't fathom it happening now while life is great, if they were actually staring chaos in the face with their own eyes they would crumble and just fade away ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink
I truly hope the OP doesn't experience an event that will prove him wrong (such as living west of I-5 in Washington and Oregon when Cascadia lets go), and spends his last days sitting on a hill waiting for a FEMA helicopter to drop him a Snickers bar. ...
From a fatalistic viewpoint, a question – and I don’t mean this with cynicism or cant: why be so keen on staying alive? I mean, if the situation becomes bleak and desperate, wouldn’t it be better to use that training and that arsenal to just turn the gun onto oneself, and shuffle off the mortal coil on one’s own terms?
But… here’s a scenario, in keeping with this thread’s theme, that’s long fascinated me – and I wonder how the “prepper community” would respond: the siege of Leningrad, 1941-1944.
Background: on June 22, 1941, the Nazis hurled 3 million men against the frontiers of the USSR, in the largest and bloodiest military campaign in history. A mere several weeks later, advance-elements of Army Group North were on the outskirts of Leningrad. The Red Army was unable to hold the line, and with the priority being Moscow, defenders were pulled away. The Nazi armies surrounded the city, bombed the food-stocks, cut off all supply routes (the Finns helped with that, too), and laid siege. The idea was to starve the city into capitulation. Of some 3 million residents, 1 million – a third – eventually died, primarily of starvation or disease… until finally, some 900 days later, the siege was lifted.
So… suppose that you’re a savvy, healthy, clever and well-informed person, circa 1939. Because of your excellent connections, you’ve already heard of the artificial famine in Ukraine, 1930-1932… so you know about the ruthlessness and pitilessness of the regime. You’ve observed the show-trials, the denunciations and purges. At great risk, you’re an amateur radio-hobbyist, and you speak multiple languages, so despite Soviet assurances after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, you’ve heard the ominous foreign broadcasts from the BBC, and you’re aware of the Nazi invasion threat. Moreover, you have connections in food-stores… the butcher, the baker and so forth. You know where food gets delivered first, and where to line up to get it. Armed with that knowledge and awareness, how would you prepare?
Consider: leaving the city prior to the war is a difficult proposition in any case, raising suspicion. Decamping to the countryside, to your well-fortified and well-stocked dacha in the forest just before the Germans advance, is a possibility – except that Hoth’s or Guderian’s tanks will probably overrun it. So, you’re staying in your apartment in the city. What will you store? Where will you store it? No electricity. -40 deg temperature (please don’t ask if that’s Celsius or Fahrenheit) … Roald Amundsen himself would be a bit challenged in that weather. Let’s suppose that you’ve stored hundreds of cans of tuna, beans or whatnot. Great. Now suppose that you appear on the street, with your full cheeks and round chest and bright visage, because you’re well-nourished. What would people think? Is there any chance that they just might suspect something? Is there any chance that they just might find YOU to be a tasty morsel? And even short of that, a few neighbors jealously complaining of your healthy looks, will probably get you shot as a collaborator. So, are you going to stay holed-up in your apartment for 900 days?
…...And even short of that, a few neighbors jealously complaining of your healthy looks, will probably get you shot as a collaborator. So, are you going to stay holed-up in your apartment for 900 days? Thoughts?
Right off the top of my head, I would think that being one of the two million survivors would beat the heck out of being part of the one million casualties of Leningrad. There are no guarantees, you're looking to improve your odds. So being young and healthy, it seems like you'd join, or be pressed into service, on the side of the defenders of the city. And as such, you would share your stores with your comrades, and by improving their odds of survival, improve your own as well. May, work, may not. But it would be a chance. Even if not, you'd be a hero to the people you care about, even if no one knew it but them. JMHO.
From a fatalistic viewpoint, a question – and I don’t mean this with cynicism or cant: why be so keen on staying alive? I mean, if the situation becomes bleak and desperate, wouldn’t it be better to use that training and that arsenal to just turn the gun onto oneself, and shuffle off the mortal coil on one’s own terms?
But… here’s a scenario, in keeping with this thread’s theme, that’s long fascinated me – and I wonder how the “prepper community” would respond: the siege of Leningrad, 1941-1944.
Background: on June 22, 1941, the Nazis hurled 3 million men against the frontiers of the USSR, in the largest and bloodiest military campaign in history. A mere several weeks later, advance-elements of Army Group North were on the outskirts of Leningrad. The Red Army was unable to hold the line, and with the priority being Moscow, defenders were pulled away. The Nazi armies surrounded the city, bombed the food-stocks, cut off all supply routes (the Finns helped with that, too), and laid siege. The idea was to starve the city into capitulation. Of some 3 million residents, 1 million – a third – eventually died, primarily of starvation or disease… until finally, some 900 days later, the siege was lifted.
So… suppose that you’re a savvy, healthy, clever and well-informed person, circa 1939. Because of your excellent connections, you’ve already heard of the artificial famine in Ukraine, 1930-1932… so you know about the ruthlessness and pitilessness of the regime. You’ve observed the show-trials, the denunciations and purges. At great risk, you’re an amateur radio-hobbyist, and you speak multiple languages, so despite Soviet assurances after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, you’ve heard the ominous foreign broadcasts from the BBC, and you’re aware of the Nazi invasion threat. Moreover, you have connections in food-stores… the butcher, the baker and so forth. You know where food gets delivered first, and where to line up to get it. Armed with that knowledge and awareness, how would you prepare?
Consider: leaving the city prior to the war is a difficult proposition in any case, raising suspicion. Decamping to the countryside, to your well-fortified and well-stocked dacha in the forest just before the Germans advance, is a possibility – except that Hoth’s or Guderian’s tanks will probably overrun it. So, you’re staying in your apartment in the city. What will you store? Where will you store it? No electricity. -40 deg temperature (please don’t ask if that’s Celsius or Fahrenheit) … Roald Amundsen himself would be a bit challenged in that weather. Let’s suppose that you’ve stored hundreds of cans of tuna, beans or whatnot. Great. Now suppose that you appear on the street, with your full cheeks and round chest and bright visage, because you’re well-nourished. What would people think? Is there any chance that they just might suspect something? Is there any chance that they just might find YOU to be a tasty morsel? And even short of that, a few neighbors jealously complaining of your healthy looks, will probably get you shot as a collaborator. So, are you going to stay holed-up in your apartment for 900 days?
Thoughts?
Wasn't the premise on the latter exactly what popularized schadenfreud on the the other side? The ladies with a bit of meat left to them were the ones most fancied by the dark actions that accompany occupancy?
Now the mainstay reasoning here tends to be to head for the hills to a well kept bunker. I would of course stay in the city, precisely for the tank reason. Holed up on my own in the middle of nowhere, I'm a small excuse for a wayward platoon on either side to not gorge themselves. In the city, there's plenty of prying eyes, but favors and trade to be had.
I would take with favor to being viewed as well nourished. It would no doubt give credibility to trade deals during a siege. The phrase of all is fair in love and war holds true. I would not invest today with someone who drove up in a 1983 Chrysler. I would not expect someone else to buy my food if I looked like I was starving to death.
Having a store of food would be wonderful, no doubt, but you'll likely have limited storage. Bread will spoil. Grain could attract rats and does one little good without a means of cooking it. Still, cutting back on luxuries and moving personal spend to canned meats or something long lasting does not seem to be a bad idea. As the idea of war looks more and more likely in ones mind, taking savings and converting it into storable food looks also increasingly smart. Alcohol...well, there's never a time where that's worthless. Coal may be worthwhile to gather as well.
Beyond the what is the who. Even in the city, a single person is vulnerable. You need muscle. You need distribution. Who will be the customer. Who will be the source.
Finally the what. Do you plan on wholesaling this to other restaurants. Do you plan on doing individual trades. Do you plan on operating a restaurant yourself? For me in that situation, I'd care little for either side that wins. Ideally, if the city were to change hands, I'd want to convert food and alcohol to gold, so I'd likely stock out early. Of course, if I'd have known it was going to be a 3 year siege, I'd likely have opted to give up and flee to the East.
It's very hard to know because I don't know enough about the restrictions placed on citiizens at the time. As a male, I'd likely be conscripted anyway. In order for the above to work, there would need to be three key determinations.
1. I believe my region has a probability of being invaded by another country that is greater than what I feel in the US (which is currently at 0%)
2. I'd have to have the freedom to actively do something about it. Here I do. I don't know about USSR. That can be monetarily and/or legally.
3. Do I have anything of value, and where? If all I have in Leningrad is a rented apartment and a hope, then I move the family to a nice neutral country...like Sweden. If I have multiple family branches and deep roots, then I'm setting up to store more and possibly learning some Deutsche phrases.
Your asking us to speculate why or why not our prepping would or wouldn't work during the eastern front of ww2 during Stalingrad.
I suggest reading war of the rats. It's a good book on this topic.
But the thing is, we don't live in the USSR. We live in America where we have freedoms, opportunities and resources available to us that the common Russian peasant would only have dreamed about.
We are basing our actions and decisions on where we are now and where the future may take us.
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