Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
OP, I also had a horrific student teaching experience (also in Minnesota, in fact).
Like you, I am a good teacher who is creative and not cookie cutter. This is something that rubs some teachers the wrong way, particularly those who are very type-A and stick-to-the-template sorts (which the profession attends to attract a LOT of). I also find that there is a certain amount of nastiness that comes out, because students tend to be more receptive to teachers who use, to use the cliche, "outside the box" lessons and activities than those who do not, and that can cause friction.
I had a cooperating teacher who was incredibly unhelpful, and I was never sure why she agreed to have a student teacher in the first place. I spoke numerous times to my (wonderful) faculty advisor about the difficulties I was having, and she acknowledged that the woman seemed to be gunning for me. I nearly just quit the program, but she talked me into gutting it out. I did pass my student teaching, but it was so miserable, and took such a toll that I steered clear of the profession for a FULL TEN YEARS afterward. I did evaluate my experience with my college's Dept. of Education, and detailed the treatment I received, and highly recommended that the college not work with this particular district or teacher again.
I did learn that I have zero interest in teaching in a traditional public school, standard issue classroom type arrangement. I have, since then, always done my instructing and educating in much more unconventional environments...specialized private schools, tutoring and mentoring programs, basically anything that is not the "typical" school or educational setting. The standard public school (and, moreso, the other people who tend to work in the standard public school) are simply not my cup of tea.
OP, I also had a horrific student teaching experience (also in Minnesota, in fact).
Like you, I am a good teacher who is creative and not cookie cutter. This is something that rubs some teachers the wrong way, particularly those who are very type-A and stick-to-the-template sorts (which the profession attends to attract a LOT of). I also find that there is a certain amount of nastiness that comes out, because students tend to be more receptive to teachers who use, to use the cliche, "outside the box" lessons and activities than those who do not, and that can cause friction.
I had a cooperating teacher who was incredibly unhelpful, and I was never sure why she agreed to have a student teacher in the first place. I spoke numerous times to my (wonderful) faculty advisor about the difficulties I was having, and she acknowledged that the woman seemed to be gunning for me. I nearly just quit the program, but she talked me into gutting it out. I did pass my student teaching, but it was so miserable, and took such a toll that I steered clear of the profession for a FULL TEN YEARS afterward. I did evaluate my experience with my college's Dept. of Education, and detailed the treatment I received, and highly recommended that the college not work with this particular district or teacher again.
I did learn that I have zero interest in teaching in a traditional public school, standard issue classroom type arrangement. I have, since then, always done my instructing and educating in much more unconventional environments...specialized private schools, tutoring and mentoring programs, basically anything that is not the "typical" school or educational setting. The standard public school (and, moreso, the other people who tend to work in the standard public school) are simply not my cup of tea.
Hi Tabula!
Thanks for sharing your story about your horrible student teaching experience. How were you able to pass if it was so unbearable? But like you, this recent student teaching experience and the idiotic comment to me from the middle school principal (who told me that I was "like a dead man walking"), leads me to believe that my personality and my teaching style would not be a good fit for traditional schools.
I really don't know why my spring mentor teacher chose to mentor me, especially since she attended an all day seminar and received a manual and packet of paperwork that clearly explained her responsibilities. She chose not to take those on, and for those posters in my thread who see me as the main problem, well as the saying goes, "it takes two to tango." So I'm not going to take responsibility for my mentor teacher's choices.
Reading your post has allowed me to have an epiphany. I love teaching. I really do. BUT like you, I think I'm starting to accept the idea that maybe traditional classrooms aren't the right teaching environment for my style of teaching. The issue isn't that I'm not fit to teach middle school or high school students.
The issue is: where do I belong in education as a teacher? How do I fit in based on my style of teaching and my personality? I know that I don't like being told what to teach or how to teach it. That has nothing to do with not being licensed or having had previous community college teaching experience. It has to do with the fact that I know I would thrive in a school where the principal and language arts dept gave the teachers freedom to teach their subject matter in their own teaching style, not in a cookie-cutter fashion. I know those kinds of classrooms do exist.
The private school where I had my fall placement is one such school. I attended all of the language arts dept meetings while there, and was introduced to 12 very unique personalities who all had 12 very unique teaching styles. They chose their own textbooks, wrote up their own curriculum, didn't adhere to the Common Core Standards or No Child Left Behind, and put emphasis on making learning fun and engaging for students, rather than test-driven instruction.
Of course my fall mentor teacher included test questions etc. that met my state's testing requirements. She did so to help her students prepare, but did so in such a way as the students didn't feel pressured to pass the state tests. That's the kind of teacher I think I am too. My fall mentor teacher and I had the same personality type, the same view of our teaching role in the classroom as well as having the same values.
So there are schools in the U.S. like the one I did my fall placement at, that reject the Common Core Standards and NCLB and which don't punish teachers when some of their students fail standardized tests. Those are the schools I want to work as a teacher for. I know those schools will most likely be charter, montessori and private and not public schools. I'm fine with that. I know that I can teach at a private school without a state teaching license but unfortunately here in Minnesota, more private schools are requiring teachers to have state teaching licenses.
Despite what the other seasoned teachers here believe about the rhetoric and pedagogy I shared that my program taught me, I disagree with them that the student-centered values I spoke of about the cooperative teaching strategies I mentioned aren't useful. Student-centered teaching combined with some teacher-centered lecture is a much better mix than straight teacher lecturing for students in my opinion. Differentiating lesson plans IS useful because it hits all the students different styles of learning.
Asking students higher order thinking questions a la Blooms Taxonomy. These are useful tools. To damn me for mentioning them is just small minded. To say that I have a me-me-me-attitude is also small minded and petty, to those posters who have said that about me. It's just not true.
To those seasoned teachers who posted here, who whined that students only care about passing a class; some do, and some STILL enjoy the learning process. That's been the way students are since the beginning of time. It's nothing new and has nothing to do with why my spring placement failed. I never said that ALL students should enjoy what I'm teaching all the time. When I taught community college English classes, I had a bunch of students who were there because they had to be, not because they had any interest. I was teaching general education English classes. Not every student in my classes were English majors. So I get it. I never took that personally either.
One of the first things I learned in my MAT program was this: you can't reach every student but you can use different tools (differentiated learning, cooperative learning, etc.) to try. Just because I don't have a teaching license doesn't make me "green," to the realities of teaching. It's impossible for one teacher to affect 30 students the same exact way because each of those students have their own motivation, their own problems, their own learning style and challenges and interests. But there are teaching strategies to help teachers create lesson plans to help them reach all of their students. For example, in my fall placement I had one class of students where there were 4 students with IEP's for dyslexia, autism, ADHD, and low reading ability. What did I do to help those 4 students? I created alternative assignments, extended assignment deadlines, and provided them with one-on-one time with a tutor or paraprofessional to help them. Does that sound like a teacher who is all me-focused?
So I resent those comments from posters on this thread who criticize me as though I didn't have a clue as to the reality of teaching. Did I mention the Common Core Standards? No Child Left Behind? Those are plagues to education and learning and to teacher's lives as well. And I would never want to teach for a school that adheres to them. I know that limits my job opportunities because there are many public schoos which follow the Common Core Standards. Both remove the creativity from teaching for teachers, and both remove the joy of learning for students. and instead place an economical importance on learning outcomes, as well as fear for job security for teachers. But that is a debate for another educational thread.
I created this thread because I wanted to hear from seasoned teachers (even if we disagree on some points, which is fine) about your mentoring experiences and your reaction to my situation because I think it's helpful to get outside opinions. Doesn't mean that I will agree with everyone's input though. And if I disagree with you it doesn't mean that you are wrong and I am right. It just means that we have different opinions.
I created this thread because I know that I want to be a teacher. And maybe in hindsight, pursuing a teaching license instead of a masters degree in my content area was a financial and personal mistake. But I had to go through to complete my MAT coursework, field experiences and now two student teaching placements to come to the realization that: I should have just pursued a masters and not a teaching license. I think that's the revelation I needed - the blessing in disguise about this negative placement experience.
Like the poster Tabula, I have zero interest in teaching to the Common Core standards because those conflict with my teaching values. And if my program will grant me my masters in education, then I can use that to apply for a masters in English literature, which is truly what I should have done in the first place. But as they say, "hindsight is 20/20."
Thanks everyone who participated in this thread. Your opinions matter and the discussion that ensued was both interesting and extremely helpful to me.
The great irony for me, is that I taught school as well. I dropped out of high school. Never was one to "kizz azz", or fit in with the establishment. But I have always had one great passion, working with the blind. I learned Braille, and back 40 years ago all books had to be in Braille for blind students. I ended up working with a blind student and was hired by the university, to do all her work in Braille. I got free tuition, so I majored in SPED. and went on for a specialized masters for deaf blind.
No one ever really bothered me, because parents loved me. And if SPED parents love you, you are gold.
The great irony for me, is that I taught school as well. I dropped out of high school. Never was one to "kizz azz", or fit in with the establishment. But I have always had one great passion, working with the blind. I learned Braille, and back 40 years ago all books had to be in Braille for blind students. I ended up working with a blind student and was hired by the university, to do all her work in Braille. I got free tuition, so I majored in SPED. and went on for a specialized masters for deaf blind.
No one ever really bothered me, because parents loved me. And if SPED parents love you, you are gold.
Those of us in SPED are often a quirky breed.
Thanks for sharing your story jasper12. That is so awesome that you followed your passion of working with the blind and then how that led you to your specialized masters in SPED.
As I read these posts, it brought back memories of my own student teaching experience.
I did Phase One in a middle school, and was so successful, I was asked to provide mentoring to two other struggling STs. I received outstanding recommendations, and later, they hired me!
Phase Two was at a high school. I was placed with a Master Teacher who took "leave" one semester out of every three (stress?). The Principal believed STs should be "challenged", so I received 3 different subjects to teach: Freshman Geography; Junior History; and Senior Government. I also had 40-50 kids per class, including deaf students with an interpreter; non-English speakers with an interpreter; emtionally disturbed, with handlers; and 3 foreign exchange students with very limited English. Whenever I tried to establish parameters or deadlines for my students, they went to my Master Teacher, who immediately over-ruled whatever I had stated. They were never "my students" and she would NOT even allow me to use the teacher-editions of the textbooks, because I "needed to learn to teach without them". (She kept them at home.) Meanwhile, my University Advisor was the original Spongebob!
This situation devolved for several months, until I received a letter from the university I was attending, informing me that I had not met their requirements for my B.A. degree, and would be "required" to take two more years of classes.
I almost dropped out of Education at that point. Before I did, I contacted the University of California campus, where I had earned my B.A. Degree. Fortunately, I spoke to someone knowledgeable and empathetic, who listened to my story, then told me that I met the rule of "good faith". I had completed everything required "at the time" I graduated, and could NOT be forced to take additional classes.
Armed with that information, I raced out to my then-current University, and presented my findings.
Their response was "well yes, technically, that is true, but we believe you would be a BETTER teacher if you take these additional classes." I was astonished and angry!!! When pressed, they agreed that perhaps they should have used the term "recommended" rather than "required", in their letter.
I immediately demanded a meeting with the Ed. Dept. Leaders, told this entire story, and added that I was in a horrible student-teaching situation, yet was not receiving any support from them.
Still more unbelieveably, they then admitted that I was the third ST placed with this Master Teacher, and that ALL had washed out! Mentioning legal action got me moved the next day to a different school, and I received my credential with the rest of my class. I have been teaching for 30 years, very successfully, since. A couple of weeks ago, I noticed my former MT in the obits. Good riddance!
Sorry to be so long-winded! There was even more to this story, but I covered the main part, and it feels good to write it down.
Best of luck to those of you who are struggling!
As I read these posts, it brought back memories of my own student teaching experience.
I did Phase One in a middle school, and was so successful, I was asked to provide mentoring to two other struggling STs. I received outstanding recommendations, and later, they hired me!
Phase Two was at a high school. I was placed with a Master Teacher who took "leave" one semester out of every three (stress?). The Principal believed STs should be "challenged", so I received 3 different subjects to teach: Freshman Geography; Junior History; and Senior Government. I also had 40-50 kids per class, including deaf students with an interpreter; non-English speakers with an interpreter; emtionally disturbed, with handlers; and 3 foreign exchange students with very limited English. Whenever I tried to establish parameters or deadlines for my students, they went to my Master Teacher, who immediately over-ruled whatever I had stated. They were never "my students" and she would NOT even allow me to use the teacher-editions of the textbooks, because I "needed to learn to teach without them". (She kept them at home.) Meanwhile, my University Advisor was the original Spongebob!
This situation devolved for several months, until I received a letter from the university I was attending, informing me that I had not met their requirements for my B.A. degree, and would be "required" to take two more years of classes.
I almost dropped out of Education at that point. Before I did, I contacted the University of California campus, where I had earned my B.A. Degree. Fortunately, I spoke to someone knowledgeable and empathetic, who listened to my story, then told me that I met the rule of "good faith". I had completed everything required "at the time" I graduated, and could NOT be forced to take additional classes.
Armed with that information, I raced out to my then-current University, and presented my findings.
Their response was "well yes, technically, that is true, but we believe you would be a BETTER teacher if you take these additional classes." I was astonished and angry!!! When pressed, they agreed that perhaps they should have used the term "recommended" rather than "required", in their letter.
I immediately demanded a meeting with the Ed. Dept. Leaders, told this entire story, and added that I was in a horrible student-teaching situation, yet was not receiving any support from them.
Still more unbelieveably, they then admitted that I was the third ST placed with this Master Teacher, and that ALL had washed out! Mentioning legal action got me moved the next day to a different school, and I received my credential with the rest of my class. I have been teaching for 30 years, very successfully, since. A couple of weeks ago, I noticed my former MT in the obits. Good riddance!
Sorry to be so long-winded! There was even more to this story, but I covered the main part, and it feels good to write it down.
Best of luck to those of you who are struggling!
Wow Future!! Lol! That is an amazing story of surviving horrible student teaching experiences! Thank you for sharing and for not giving up despite the obstacles in your way. Congratulations on your 30 year teaching career!
I fell into SPED a few years back, when I returned to teaching in a unique setting. My background is English/Reading. If I were one who wanted to stay in the traditional school environment, I would definitely have gotten a master's degree as a reading specialist. SPED teachers are a different breed, but the job, too, is totally different. I have a unique vantage point coming into SPED from a different content area background.
To the OP, you and I have a lot in common philosophically. Teaching in the way we prefer to teach is growing increasingly incompatible with schools as they are being forced to become. I have done my teaching in the private school setting, I have done it in specialized programs via nonprofits, and am always on the lookout for ways to use my skills and background that are not the typical, run-of-the-mill setting. Museums, zoos, and other similar settings that run educational programs but are not subject to the same ill-thought-out legislation that public schools in the U.S. are may be an option, but those positions are few and far between. Still, it is good to look outside the cookie cutter format. The jobs DO exist...they typically don't even pay as well as public schools, but most people who choose to take them really don't care, because they're in it for what the job is, not what it pays.
One good take-away for the OP and others who have struggled with student teaching is this: LOTS of people have crappy student teaching experiences. Lots of those who do are people who very much have the capacity to be very good teachers. The settings in which one finds one's self assigned are not always necessarily the best fits. This is life. Once you are actually out in the teaching world, no longer as a student, you will have more freedom over the settings in which you choose to teach, overall. But it is very important to find the right fit, and the standard, TV-book-and-movie version of classroom teaching isn't for everyone.
Last edited by TabulaRasa; 03-16-2013 at 02:31 PM..
I fell into SPED a few years back, when I returned to teaching in a unique setting. My background is English/Reading. If I were one who wanted to stay in the traditional school environment, I would definitely have gotten a master's degree as a reading specialist. SPED teachers are a different breed, but the job, too, is totally different. I have a unique vantage point coming into SPED from a different content area background.
To the OP, you and I have a lot in common philosophically. Teaching in the way we prefer to teach is growing increasingly incompatible with schools as they are being forced to become. I have done my teaching in the private school setting, I have done it in specialized programs via nonprofits, and am always on the lookout for ways to use my skills and background that are not the typical, run-of-the-mill setting. Museums, zoos, and other similar settings that run educational programs but are not subject to the same ill-thought-out legislation that public schools in the U.S. are may be an option, but those positions are few and far between. Still, it is good to look outside the cookie cutter format. The jobs DO exist...they typically don't even pay as well as public schools, but most people who choose to take them really don't care, because they're in it for what the job is, not what it pays.
One good take-away for the OP and others who have struggled with student teaching is this: LOTS of people have crappy student teaching experiences. Lots of those who do are people who very much have the capacity to be very good teachers. The settings in which one finds one's self assigned are not always necessarily the best fits. This is life. Once you are actually out in the teaching world, no longer as a student, you will have more freedom over the settings in which you choose to teach, overall. But it is very important to find the right fit, and the standard, TV-book-and-movie version of classroom teaching isn't for everyone.
Thank you for this post Tabula. Those alternative teaching positions in places like zoos and museums, etc are exactly the kind of environment I think I need to be - or charter or private schools where just a masters degree is enough to get a teaching job.
Your post and a few others on my thread have given me a LOT of information to reflect on my current situation, and will actually help me frame to my MAT program director et all why I know this and my fall placements weren't successful.
I just know at this point, I don't want to finish my spring student teaching and I don't want to get an actual teacher's license; just my masters in education. This spring's placement took a real toll on me, in a short period of time, not because I couldn't handle the work load, but because of the incompatibility between myself and the mentor teacher. I'm not going to put myself through that kind of experience again. I'll just ask my program to give me my masters degree since I have technically completed all the coursework to earn it. I'll still be a teacher, but in a different way than traditional public schools, which frankly aren't the kind of environment I ever saw myself being a teacher for, esp. with all this new Common Core requirements. No thanks.
My MAT program's policy for student teachers is: 2 strikes (2 failed placements) and you're done. That's what I'm going through right now because my mentor teacher decided I wasn't a good student teacher in her eyes.
Teachers' jobs are difficult, but I think student teachers have it far worse. Last semester I got 2s and 3s on all of my formal evaluations (my student teaching was split to 7 weeks in a high school last fall and 7 weeks in a middle school this spring...but I only was able to complete 2 of the 7 weeks before I got pulled).
What really frustrates me is that even my teaching advisor observed my mentor teacher's unwillingness to mentor me when she came out to do her first formal observation. I was in tears afterward because I'm exhausted from lack of sleep due to taking my final course while student teaching 8 hours a day. It's a lot to handle.
The straw that broke the camel's back was the way my mentor teacher contradicted herself in front of me to my advisor when she had negative comments about one of my lesson plan activities. I previewed my lesson plan activities with my mentor teacher, right? Well, common sense says, if the mentor teacher thinks there's a problem with the lesson plan activity, it's her job to offer her feedback ahead of time. Well, my mentor teacher didn't say anything negative at the time I previewed the lesson plan activity. But after school when my advisor and mentor teacher and I sat down together to talk about my teaching performance, that's when my mentor teacher came out with guns blazing about the lesson plan activity that she claims she had no idea ahead of time that I was going to do. Basically, she totally lied to my advisor in front of me! Instead of remaining silent, I reminded my mentor teacher in front of my advisor that I previewed my lesson plan with her before I taught it and she didn't have any negative feedback for me at the time. Then I followed it up with a question, "Why would you let me teach something you don't approve of?" This prompted my advisor to ask the mentor teacher the same question, which made the mentor teacher uncomfortable because, well, I called her out on her obvious lie.
Next thing I know, I get a call from my program director who tells me that my mentor teacher doesn't want me to return to my placement in her classroom. And because my graduate program's policy is 2 strikes and you're out, I have no recourse except to submit a typed statement to my program's committee and my university's dean and academic chancellor, in defense of myself. And I'm two months away from my spring graduation. What's even worse, is that I may not even be given my masters degree in education because again, my graduate program's policy is that student teachers have to complete all 14 weeks of student teaching to be awarded the masters degree (which is just one capstone course that I'm currently taking right now). So, 3 years of my life invested in coursework, field experiences and half of my student teaching passed for nothing?
OP, I feel your pain. I did student teaching under two teachers. The main teacher never gave me any feedback, and wasn't even observing me, as far as I could tell (he'd been teaching combined classes until I came along, then he assigned me to one of the classes and sent me to a small library to teach that group). He told me at the end of my experience that he'd been observing me secretly through a window in a closet he accessed from another room (WEIRD!). But at least he gave me a good review.
The other teacher was unhappy, because she wanted me to start teaching right away, but my primary obligation was to the first teacher. According to the program, I wasn't supposed to start with the second teacher (other than observing) until about 6 weeks in. At lunch with other faculty she openly said (more than once) that she wanted a student teacher so she could take the semester off from teaching. I asked the teaching adviser to explain to her that I was supposed to focus on the classes I had with the other teacher during the first half of the program. After it was all over, the teaching adviser refused to write a recommendation for me (which she was actually required to do)!
You'd think these teaching advisers are there to represent the university's program. But they seem to side with the teachers in the schools. Which means the student trainees don't have anyone backing them up. The system is kind of stacked against them. And of course, they don't find this out until they're in the middle of a mess, and need support.
Have you discussed with your adviser the possibility of doing another teacher training assignment, to make up for the lost opportunity? Do you have the option of applying to private schools for teaching jobs, even without your credential? Can you get experience working as a substitute teacher?
Sorry to hear about this injustice . Hopefully, you'll find some resolution.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As I read these posts, it brought back memories of my own student teaching experience. 
Meanwhile, my University Advisor was the original Spongebob!
A couple of weeks ago, I noticed my former MT in the obits.
. Hopefully, you'll find some resolution.
