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Old 05-21-2013, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonysam View Post
I've worked in both, and public education districts are a completely different animal than private sector or even other government employment. People going into education have utterly no idea how terrible the working conditions can be, and most of it is a direct result of the abuse of power by principals and other administrators.

Remember, unlike supervisors in private industry, principals are basically unsupervised and are rarely held accountable for their actions. Their supervisors, if they can be so called, are way over in the other part of town. When principals screw up, which is often, they are very, very rarely fired outright when they should be. Instead, they are given second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh chances to stay with their districts. They get moved to another principal job, are demoted to teacher, given a make-work job in the central office, or even promoted.

Ability has little to do with being promoted principal. One person can literally destroy your career and your life. I had two rotten ones in a row. The next-to-last one was a sociopath with idiotic tendencies (he was finally demoted five years after I worked with him because he committed sexual misconduct with a subordinate and only because the woman's husband complained to the superintendent), and the last one was an idiot with sociopathic tendencies (she fired me illegally violating FMLA, state administrative law, and the negotiated agreement). Both are still employed at my old district doing different jobs when both should have been FIRED. I got fired over literally nothing five years ago and can't get back on my feet financially while these cretins are still ripping off the taxpayers.
I'm amazed at the power the principal holds. It's his playground.

Sadly, about the only thing I ever could have done to have avoided this situation was to have given out A's like candy which is so against my morals.
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:35 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,209,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I'm amazed at the power the principal holds. It's his playground.

Sadly, about the only thing I ever could have done to have avoided this situation was to have given out A's like candy which is so against my morals.
Give 'e-mail A's and let e-mail eat crow. My thorn was giving too many A's in SpEd
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Give 'e-mail A's and let e-mail eat crow. My thorn was giving too many A's in SpEd
What do you mean "e-mail A's". Sorry, that went over my head.

I have a feeling that no matter what some of us do, our admins won't like it. It seems mine looks for excuses. Just this week, I asked another teacher if she thought the admins would back me in giving two students who have the same wrong answers on a test zeros. Her reply was, "If I did it or Paul over there did it yes, but not if you do it.". Her advice was just grade them.

I am so disillusioned with the teaching profession. Not teachers but admins and parents who care more about grades than they do learning. I signed up to help kids learn. I think I'm in the wrong profession. This profession is about grades and test scores.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 05-21-2013 at 07:46 PM..
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:09 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,191 posts, read 107,809,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I really wish I could afford to work for a private school. I think I'd enjoy it. I enjoy the teaching part but I have to walk away. I can't deal with the politics. I'm so tired of being treated like a child by my boss. Of having my professional judgement dismissed. Of not being supported (my principal will thow you under the bus in a heartbeat to appease a complaining parent even when you're doing what HE told you to do.)

Now to find a job back in industry.
Why do they cave to parents so easily?
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:40 PM
 
442 posts, read 1,077,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I'm amazed at the power the principal holds. It's his playground.

Sadly, about the only thing I ever could have done to have avoided this situation was to have given out A's like candy which is so against my morals.
And you know, Ivorytickler, that is all it takes for you to have your career destroyed. Standing up for ethics, which as a teacher you are supposed to have, is to be tossed by the wayside if your principal insists on changing grades, or, in my next-to-last principal's case, refusing to cheat when this principal wanted me to put all my special education students on alternate testing despite the fact I could NOT do this. You are considered "insubordinate," and that principal and his or her higher-ups will see to it you are railroaded.

If you have a union, it will not do squat for you.

Teaching is the only field I know where you have to lawyer up in order to keep a career. That's not because of parent lawsuits, as those are handled by school district insurance companies, but for wrongful actions by administrators. Few teachers have the money to hire an attorney.

Most risk losing everything like yours truly did.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:44 PM
 
442 posts, read 1,077,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Why do they cave to parents so easily?
Their job is supposed to be to have your back but all too often want to knife it.

Principals' real responsibilities have to do with self-preservation at all costs.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:14 PM
 
18,836 posts, read 37,350,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonysam View Post
Their job is supposed to be to have your back but all too often want to knife it.

Principals' real responsibilities have to do with self-preservation at all costs.
Right. Above all, you are an employee of the school district, not an advocate for students. Principals are like a pinwheel, they change when the wind blows another way.

My ethics as a teacher, were to pay my mortgage, and feed my kids, those were my values, so, I really had no opinion on anything.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:20 PM
 
2,612 posts, read 5,584,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonysam View Post
And you know, Ivorytickler, that is all it takes for you to have your career destroyed. Standing up for ethics, which as a teacher you are supposed to have, is to be tossed by the wayside if your principal insists on changing grades, or, in my next-to-last principal's case, refusing to cheat when this principal wanted me to put all my special education students on alternate testing despite the fact I could NOT do this. You are considered "insubordinate," and that principal and his or her higher-ups will see to it you are railroaded.

If you have a union, it will not do squat for you.

Teaching is the only field I know where you have to lawyer up in order to keep a career. That's not because of parent lawsuits, as those are handled by school district insurance companies, but for wrongful actions by administrators. Few teachers have the money to hire an attorney.

Most risk losing everything like yours truly did.
That's the heart of the problem - the whole "insubordination" thing. You can be asked to do something completely illegal - and probably, at some point, will be - and if you don't do it you can be fired for "insubordination." The only people who survive in teaching are the kind who keep their mouths shut and their heads down. They do what they are told and don't attract attention to themselves. All the things we are supposed to teach kids - problem solving, critical thinking, etc. - are strictly forbidden. Anyone who cares too much about helping kids is going to be in trouble, since that will mean at some point drawing attention to yourself. You have to be willing to ignore kids' needs, throw them under the bus, and watch them be hurt while you look the other way and say nothing to anyone. If you can't do that, you won't last long. It's a crap system in so many ways.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,549,746 times
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And insubordination is generally pretty loosely defined, typically to cover administrators' butts...anything an administrator simply doesn't like can be spun as insubordination.

Regarding to capitulating administrators' requests, even at the expense of professional ethics and adherence to law, the problem is that if an administrator is gunning for you, no matter how many things you bow to, there will always be something "more" that you didn't do. If you gave out all A's, or recommended your entire caseload for alternate testing, it wouldn't matter...something else would be found to hold against you.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:01 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Why do they cave to parents so easily?
I have no idea but that's the norm in this community. Maybe it has something to do with the fact it's an affluent community. I don't know as I grew up poor and schools didn't get choices on things like teacher assignments. If I were in a school where no choice was given, I would have been given a chance and maybe parents would see that there really is no difference between my grade curve and the next teacher's. Unfortunately, they believe there is and my principal won't argue with them.
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