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Why? Why should the small percentage who are trouble makers be allowed to disrupt the learning of the rest of the students? Why should the parents of those who demand special treatment be given more consideration than the vast majority of parents?
Recently myself and several others were asked to give presentations about our work to a magnet middle school. After a day there speaking to several classes, we compared notes. None of us would ever do it again. The inmates were running the asylum. Kids would get up, walk around, chat to one another, walk out of class, wander the halls dropping in and out of other classes, basically disrupting things all day long. The teacher in each class said NOTHING. Some of the kids wanted to listen and learn. And asked great questions. But they were unable to because of so much disruption going on.
You need to address your questions to Arne Duncan and any career DOJ Civil Rights enforcement lawyers remaining from the tenure of Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch.
I'll tell you something that I also found, though. You don't always know which students are going to go on to a "successful" life. I think back to my own childhood, and the three superstars in my school and class were Kathy, Louis, and Diane. They got so much attention and praise. They were the golden children. In adulthood, of those three golden children, Kathy became a prostitute, Louis became a used car salesman, and Diane actually became a successful business woman. One of our superstars in the middle school where I was principal went on to serve life in prison for murder. On the other hand, some students "find themselves" somewhere along the line in school and rise to heights we never imagined.
Oh absolutely. That's one of the downsides about teaching, you usually don't see the kid(s) who gave everyone fits after they graduate. I used to tell my colleagues that 99% of the kids we taught ended up alright. Now, alright means different things to different people.
I think who most here, and you and I can probably recall a bunch, mean are the kids who are just totally and completely disruptive and not making any progress towards graduation, at least that's who I mean. The ones who become 5th and 6th year Seniors and still are short credits. I can think of two my last year or maybe next to last year, one boy and one girl, who were just absolute wrecks. Both would steal anything that wasn't nailed down, especially phones and were constantly in trouble for that plus fighting, drug possession, etc.
The girl was actually controllable but you had to be on top of her constantly but the boy ended up going to the alternative high school (Croom if you remember that one, it was at the old Nike site) and was finally expelled from there.
The girl had an epiphany when she was arrested the last time for theft (a couple phones). The PG SRO took her to the jail and bypassed the juvenile entrance and went to adult intake. The girl went nuts and wondered what was happening and why she wasn't going to Baby Booking. Turns out she'd turned 18 a couple days earlier and was now eligible for Big Girl Jail. She was real well behaved when she came back to school.
Oh absolutely. That's one of the downsides about teaching, you usually don't see the kid(s) who gave everyone fits after they graduate. I used to tell my colleagues that 99% of the kids we taught ended up alright. Now, alright means different things to different people.
I think who most here, and you and I can probably recall a bunch, mean are the kids who are just totally and completely disruptive and not making any progress towards graduation, at least that's who I mean. The ones who become 5th and 6th year Seniors and still are short credits. I can think of two my last year or maybe next to last year, one boy and one girl, who were just absolute wrecks. Both would steal anything that wasn't nailed down, especially phones and were constantly in trouble for that plus fighting, drug possession, etc.
The girl was actually controllable but you had to be on top of her constantly but the boy ended up going to the alternative high school (Croom if you remember that one, it was at the old Nike site) and was finally expelled from there.
The girl had an epiphany when she was arrested the last time for theft (a couple phones). The PG SRO took her to the jail and bypassed the juvenile entrance and went to adult intake. The girl went nuts and wondered what was happening and why she wasn't going to Baby Booking. Turns out she'd turned 18 a couple days earlier and was now eligible for Big Girl Jail. She was real well behaved when she came back to school.
Working in an inner-city school has had me dealing with more than my fair share of this demographic. When I checked the local county jail list this morning, (long story--but now my daily habit), one of the most troubled kids was in for murder. He and most of his siblings had been in and out of the alternative school before dropping out.
We've had a spate of shootings in our zone lately, the worst resulting in a 1-year-old shot in the head in a drive-by. I'm nearly positive the mother (the target) is another of my former students. When teachers complain about problems with parents, these kinds of problems are not what comes to most people's minds. I wish I had problems with chewing gum and lost homework rather than with losing kids to jail, the streets, or murder.
Working in an inner-city school has had me dealing with more than my fair share of this demographic. When I checked the local county jail list this morning, (long story--but now my daily habit), one of the most troubled kids was in for murder. He and most of his siblings had been in and out of the alternative school before dropping out.
We've had a spate of shootings in our zone lately, the worst resulting in a 1-year-old shot in the head in a drive-by. I'm nearly positive the mother (the target) is another of my former students. When teachers complain about problems with parents, these kinds of problems are not what comes to most people's minds. I wish I had problems with chewing gum and lost homework rather than with losing kids to jail, the streets, or murder.
Yeah most people don't have a clue. My system had its share of inner city like schools, I was at a couple of them early, but where I ended up was solidly middle/upper middle class but due to boundary vagaries and transfer policies we had our share of your type of problems. Also, many parents moved out to us thinking it would help their kids. It usually didn't.
Yeah most people don't have a clue. My system had its share of inner city like schools, I was at a couple of them early, but where I ended up was solidly middle/upper middle class but due to boundary vagaries and transfer policies we had our share of your type of problems. Also, many parents moved out to us thinking it would help their kids. It usually didn't.
They have no clue and they don't realize that the teachers are not allowed to do anything. It's in middle class suburban schools. I really wish they could send these kids away somewhere and not allow them to attend school until they had learned how to behave. Kids like this never used to be allowed in the public schools--a kid like this would just disappear. Maybe a few months later they'd be back but maybe after that they'd disappear again. Thing was, we students got a chance to learn when those horrible kids were gone.
They have no clue and they don't realize that the teachers are not allowed to do anything. It's in middle class suburban schools. I really wish they could send these kids away somewhere and not allow them to attend school until they had learned how to behave. Kids like this never used to be allowed in the public schools--a kid like this would just disappear. Maybe a few months later they'd be back but maybe after that they'd disappear again. Thing was, we students got a chance to learn when those horrible kids were gone.
It's a shame that they can't be taken away from the homes in which the criminal mindset is inculcated, but there aren't enough foster homes available and orphanages wouldn't be any better. The kids do end up disappearing from school as they transition from the juvenile justice system to the adult penal system. Unfortunately, there are many others who step up to replace them, only to disappear in their turn a few years later.
Being in a school with hard-core students and no rational discipline system has caused our school to lose three teachers so far this year. The first was the Army reserve math teacher who said the students were in charge and that it was safer in Afghanistan, the second was the young new biology teacher who was disciplined after she tried to intervene in a violent student confrontation that injured her and an assistant principal, and right before Christmas the third left, saying that he wasn't going to stay where the students had no consequences.
My question is always, How are these policies supposed to ATTRACT and RETAIN quality teachers? We can't seem to do either one. Good thing the enrollment is dropping because soon there will be no one left to teach.
I'll tell you something that I also found, though. You don't always know which students are going to go on to a "successful" life. I think back to my own childhood, and the three superstars in my school and class were Kathy, Louis, and Diane. They got so much attention and praise. They were the golden children. In adulthood, of those three golden children, Kathy became a prostitute, Louis became a used car salesman, and Diane actually became a successful business woman. One of our superstars in the middle school where I was principal went on to serve life in prison for murder. On the other hand, some students "find themselves" somewhere along the line in school and rise to heights we never imagined.
Interesting. I was thinking about this a few years ago. It's been over 20 years since I graduated from high school. A few of the "star students" back then aren't doing much with their lives today. One was badly bullied and it still affects him into his adulthood and is keeping him from finishing college and doing something with his life. Two of the other star students committed suicide. I don't know why though.
Conversely, a couple of students who were "mediocre" (teacher's words), now have PhDs and work at Universities, one is a marine biologist, another formed a tech startup that did decently well... you never know!
I'll tell you something that I also found, though. You don't always know which students are going to go on to a "successful" life. I think back to my own childhood, and the three superstars in my school and class were Kathy, Louis, and Diane. They got so much attention and praise. They were the golden children. In adulthood, of those three golden children, Kathy became a prostitute, Louis became a used car salesman, and Diane actually became a successful business woman. One of our superstars in the middle school where I was principal went on to serve life in prison for murder. On the other hand, some students "find themselves" somewhere along the line in school and rise to heights we never imagined.
There is a saying that "the A students wind up working for the C students".
When normal teachers talk about kids and impediments to learning it's not usually because they don't all have straight As, only parents and some others think that way but behaviors that totally disrupt the classroom. That includes behaviors outside of school that carry over into the schools.
Why? Why should the small percentage who are trouble makers be allowed to disrupt the learning of the rest of the students? Why should the parents of those who demand special treatment be given more consideration than the vast majority of parents?
Recently myself and several others were asked to give presentations about our work to a magnet middle school. After a day there speaking to several classes, we compared notes. None of us would ever do it again. The inmates were running the asylum. Kids would get up, walk around, chat to one another, walk out of class, wander the halls dropping in and out of other classes, basically disrupting things all day long. The teacher in each class said NOTHING. Some of the kids wanted to listen and learn. And asked great questions. But they were unable to because of so much disruption going on.
1. All children should receive a free and appropriate education.
2. No one said parents of those who demand special treatment should be given more consideration than the vast majority of parents. Treatment of children should be determined by parent demands.
3. Sounds like you went to a lousy school or lousy classroom. Or, perhaps your talks were inadequate to get a fair hearing.
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