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If that facility is 20 years old it is most likely not under the most strict guide lines for emmisions just like our older coal facilities.
We have two incinerators here that burn trash/fuel mixture to generate electricity, one is being shutdown due to the fact that it polutes too much.
I am not sure whether the Commerce facility is or is not operating under current Air Quality Management District (AQMD) guidelines. My suspicion is they probably are given AQMD's notoriety for being tough on emissions. I will definitely research further into this.
So, in staying with the topic of this discussion, would it be fair to say that you are not in favor of including WTE as part of Puerto Rico's solution to their waste management problems? If that is indeed your position, can you name an alternative which could potentially take the place of WTE for the purpose of waste volume reduction?
In seeing WTE facilities all over the world, the number one issue is not WTE vs some other method of dealing with trash. The real issue is using WTE as a part of th solution and not the final solution.
WTE needs a certain amount AND TYPE of fuel to operate properly. What that is and how you are getting it to balance is something that really needs to be looked at very carefully. WTE often requires people not to reduce, recycle or reuse because those are the best material for fuel.
WTE fuel source also has to be monitored. If dumping trash in to the fuel line with minimal seperation, all sorts of nasty stuff will end up as fuel. Think about what may be in a garbage truck and ask if you really want that stuff being burned anywhere near your home.
Hawaii has only been able to get one WTE facility operating. Attempts at others failed because the original pollution estimates turned out to be rosy smoke predictions. The reality of the pollution ended up being worst that projected.
You still have the option Hawaii is starting to use. Ship the garbage back to the mainland. PR is closer to the mainland than Hawaii so I;m sure the shipping cost would be much lower. Hawaii decided the bulk of the trash is products of the mainland, so if they ship the garbage back for disposable in their landfills.
Keep the Islands Beautiful - Send Kansas your trash!
In seeing WTE facilities all over the world, the number one issue is not WTE vs some other method of dealing with trash. The real issue is using WTE as a part of th solution and not the final solution.
Correct! WTE is only a part of the solution not the sole solution.
WTE needs a certain amount AND TYPE of fuel to operate properly. What that is and how you are getting it to balance is something that really needs to be looked at very carefully.
Correct! Unlike mass-burn WTE facilities, there are plants which have front end processing - be it manually done or through machinery - to sort through the fuel mixture. Undesirable products such as gypum board (which results in high sulphur oxide emissions) are removed from the fuel stream. Most of what remains is a relatively homogeneous fuel which can sometimes be pelletelized for ease of introduction into the furnace.
WTE often requires people not to reduce, recycle or reuse because those are the best material for fuel.
While WTE plants do count on a guaranteed fuel source to fuction, it is still the govenrnment’s obligation to encourage the reduce-reuse-recycle philosophy. In an ideal world WTE would not exist.
WTE fuel source also has to be monitored. If dumping trash in to the fuel line with minimal seperation, all sorts of nasty stuff will end up as fuel. Think about what may be in a garbage truck and ask if you really want that stuff being burned anywhere near your home.
The most desirable type of WTE facility is one which includes front end processing.
Hawaii has only been able to get one WTE facility operating. Attempts at others failed because the original pollution estimates turned out to be rosy smoke predictions. The reality of the pollution ended up being worst that projected.
If the facility in reference is the H-power WTE plant, they are looking to expand their operating capacity. Please see the following link: Hawaii's Energy Future - Garbage-To-Energy
You still have the option Hawaii is starting to use. Ship the garbage back to the mainland. PR is closer to the mainland than Hawaii so I;m sure the shipping cost would be much lower. Hawaii decided the bulk of the trash is products of the mainland, so if they ship the garbage back for disposable in their landfills.
During the Rosello administration, Puerto Rico tried to negociate the transfer of some of its solid waste to the Dominican Republic for a fee. They were not intersted.
Transfering trash to mainland USA sounds economically and politically prohibitive.
Yes, HPower is expanding, but expanding because they have to expand to handle the trash. They have spent just as much in pollution upgrades from the original system as they are spending to expand. This is a final solution option. they have little options of dealing with trash so no matter what it cost or what polution is created, they must have the burning capacity.
They can not ship the trash off island fast enough to keep up with the incoming trash, so all they have is a near full landfill, back log of shipping it to the mainland, or burning it. No other options, no real solution. If they don't expand HPower, they would have to build an incenerator and burn it regardless.
Hawaii can't get any new WTE built. They tried it on Hawaii County and it got shot down big time.
I think the main reason this is so critical is they have poor waste management practices, Some areas have no recycling and some areas don't even have waste collection. For so long they looked at solutions that didn't have anything to do with reduction, recycling, or reusing that the standard was just throw it away. but landfills started filling up and they ignored it to one day, the trash started poking out from under the rugs, the closet door flew open, and the dog house was full. It was so late in the game, every option would require time to start and get going. HPower could have been a part of the solution, but Hawaii built a unit that required diverting recyclable material to the fuel line and after awhile, they needed trash to operate so they abandon every other option and stuck with this. But again time caught up and they started having too much trash again and the WTE couldn't handle it, so they are expanding.
It looks good on paper that the disposal system is a WTE. But had nobody stepped up to build a WTE system, the county would have built a plain old incinerator anyways.
Yes, HPower is expanding, but expanding because they have to expand to handle the trash. They have spent just as much in pollution upgrades from the original system as they are spending to expand. This is a final solution option. they have little options of dealing with trash so no matter what it cost or what polution is created, they must have the burning capacity.
They can not ship the trash off island fast enough to keep up with the incoming trash, so all they have is a near full landfill, back log of shipping it to the mainland, or burning it. No other options, no real solution. If they don't expand HPower, they would have to build an incenerator and burn it regardless.
Hawaii can't get any new WTE built. They tried it on Hawaii County and it got shot down big time.
I think the main reason this is so critical is they have poor waste management practices, Some areas have no recycling and some areas don't even have waste collection. For so long they looked at solutions that didn't have anything to do with reduction, recycling, or reusing that the standard was just throw it away. but landfills started filling up and they ignored it to one day, the trash started poking out from under the rugs, the closet door flew open, and the dog house was full. It was so late in the game, every option would require time to start and get going. HPower could have been a part of the solution, but Hawaii built a unit that required diverting recyclable material to the fuel line and after awhile, they needed trash to operate so they abandon every other option and stuck with this. But again time caught up and they started having too much trash again and the WTE couldn't handle it, so they are expanding.
It looks good on paper that the disposal system is a WTE. But had nobody stepped up to build a WTE system, the county would have built a plain old incinerator anyways.
I hope Puerto Rico doen't follow Hawaii.
First of all, thank you very much for your informed comments and for staying on topic. I posted this very same message in another website. Every single response at that site has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. It's frustrating.
The details you share about H-power and Hawaii's waste management issues sound like they are now, where Puerto Rico might be several years down the road if and when WTE is incorporated into a solution scheme. Puerto Rico is so far behind the curve that whatever is done today, will not prevent the very same conditions you so clearly describe in the future.
Okay, see the government owns that plant, Fortuño wants private investors to get involved, and for me that is a big no-no. There is just something wrong with that guy and PPPs.
Is there a way PR and DR could become the recycling islands of the world? We could start mass exchange of metals and valuables. I know PR has some factories and DR has others, our cooperation could ignite a recycling revolution. Even the thieves are stealing copper because it's so valuable. >_>
Okay, see the government owns that plant, Fortuño wants private investors to get involved, and for me that is a big no-no. There is just something wrong with that guy and PPPs.
Private investors will surely be part of any WTE venture in Puerto Rico. It's unavoidable. For example, the WTE facility proposed for Cambalache Arecibo consisted of a three-way investment between the owner-operator (Energy Answers Corporation), the existing government administrations (at the time it was Rosello and Calderon) and Banco Popular or other banking institution.
Given the costs of EIR's, permitting, design, construction, operation and maintenance, etc., the government cannot absorb these costs by itself. In addition, the operation of a WTE facility requires personnel with special skills and certifications. Not to say that the skills and certifications are impossible to obtain. But because WTE is unprecedented in Puerto Rico, there may not be enough local people with the required operating experience.
I just don't understand how the Island went crazy building oil power plants and they don't even want to invest in renewables. Because after all remember, the PR electric power authority is a govnerment company!
I agree with you regarding Hawaii given that it's an island with similar characteristics as Puerto Rico. The same cannot be said about Alaska and most lower 48 states. Most of the large states have ample room to excavate new landfills and do so. Take for example Los Angeles county California which is home of the largest active landfill in the USA. The same is scheduled to close within the next 6 years. As a result, the county purchased an abandoned mine out in the desert which is being converted into a sanitary landfill. This new landfill will afford the county 100 years of waste interment capacity.
Such is not the case in places like New Hampshire and Vermont. As a result, their percentage of WTE reliance is higher than national averages.
The smaller states have it worse...but all states have issues w/ waste disposal. There needs to be an immediate plan on what is to be done in the future about this.
Personally,I've never been a "fan" of landfills.
I live down the highway from one and (this is sad) it's the highest point in the county where I live.
And a real eyesore.
I'm in favor of burning waste for energy if they can work out scrubbers to prevent pollution.
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