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hindsight2020;7307490]LOL. He's Hawaiian but I'll call him and let him know you offered him a compliment.....
I'll assume you made the post in jest since the answer was provided earlier in the thread......
Ha but is he a Puerto Rican Hawaiian decendent?
--break break--
Janemas,
I respectfully submit my parents' experience in their time as well as my own in today's time tend to agree with the general points I've made about nuyoricanism, to include the sub-topic of the influence of the african-american experience in said cultural group. To the degrees of how much that is prevalent you and I will never agree upon as it apparently defines our very social currency in discrediting each other in that particular topic. Best of luck to you.
My brother has the same view as you do, as do some of his kids but its not deep and does not prove they understand sociology and the effects on migration and human behavior.
And much more success to you! But remember Nuyoricans are no matter what some poet or local article tells you is one generation.
Tricky question, in my view: I know so many Puerto Ricans having grown up in NYC, and I don't think I could put any into one box, except with no exception they all visit their family and home island regularly.
I now have a long term friend (non-PR) whose son moved to PR with his wife and two children, and get a varied impression from her. Overall I think economics everywhere is the divide, and probably PR is no different.
As for colour, I bet Puerto Ricans come in every shade from pure snow-white to dark, dark chocolate.
That is true.
One thing you have to think about is that unlike the USA, Puerto Rico never had the "one drop" rule, so you could have African ancestry and not be judged on that. You would still be considered Puerto Rican and Hispanic. In the USA, the one drop rule means a black person could be very white in appearance(as some of my relatives from way back were/are) and still be considered black by the rule of having "one drop" of African blood. USA society was set up during its inception to exclude anyone with African ancestry. For many reasons that idea has failed but the one drop rule still has prevailed in many minds.
i have 3 words for you to disprove your theory: George W Bush
really, it has nothing to do with ability and talents. it has to do with who knows whom and who gets those opportunities without truly having to work for it from the ground up. those who come from the same caste or know each other through families have a much better shot at becoming successful in the real world.
In Puerto Rico it's not WHO you are, it's who you KNOW...
I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, from time to time, I have lived in different areas of the United States, first in my years of college in UMASS in Amherst, then NYC, and now my latest experience has been Maryland, where I have lived for 4yrs now.
My mindset in PR, is that I don't see colors of races. My family is medium high of economy, I lived in a normal decent place. My dad was a refrigeration technician and my mother was a retired bloodwork scientist.
I went to good schools, had everything anyone in my level could have... In 1986 at much of my begging my parents bought me an Apple IIe, which I still remember the cost, was around $3,385...
My growing up friends were "Trigueño", blacks, whites, tanned... Some of them were poorer than my family, some had more money (their parents), but that is not something that you look at when you are raised there.
Eventually I moved from my parent's house, when I was in that session of my life, I wasn't going around looking for a black neighborhood or if the apartment complex where i was buying had any racial dissemination.
When I moved to Maryland, I was looking at an area called Bowie... The first thing someone told me, "Bowie is a black Neighborhood", "Crofton is mixed with Mexicans, Colombians and white collar american families", With the exception of Baltimore that mostly has junkies.
The years I was here, this experience unconsiously to me started planting this seed in my head. I could no longer see through colors and races, i have to admit there is a lot of consious dissemination in this part of the states, perhaps more in the part of where you live, than the part of where your kids go to.
In Puerto Rico you don't buy a house, depending what school is near. Because most schools you want your kids to go to are private, the public school system sucks... Here in Maryland and pretty much of the states the value of the property increases with the school you go to.
I am not trying to move around topics, just trying to picture here how is it in Puerto Rico and how is it here in the states, in terms of the mixes and integration... I don't know if you see my point...
Without going in too deep in the problems, Puerto Rico is a great place to live, yes there is crime, and problems seem bigger and there are bigger problems, but the economy is bad everywhere and affects everyone... In Puerto Rico everything is noticed faster because we are a small lot of land, compared to any state (100miles long by 35 across).
I still keep my apartment there and my wife and I always do a 1 month vacation down there almost every year.
Next week my wife and I are moving to Texas, to see if we get a bit of a relief in the conomy because in Maryland its just bad.
I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, from time to time, I have lived in different areas of the United States, first in my years of college in UMASS in Amherst, then NYC, and now my latest experience has been Maryland, where I have lived for 4yrs now.
My mindset in PR, is that I don't see colors of races. My family is medium high of economy, I lived in a normal decent place. My dad was a refrigeration technician and my mother was a retired bloodwork scientist.
I went to good schools, had everything anyone in my level could have... In 1986 at much of my begging my parents bought me an Apple IIe, which I still remember the cost, was around $3,385...
My growing up friends were "Trigueño", blacks, whites, tanned... Some of them were poorer than my family, some had more money (their parents), but that is not something that you look at when you are raised there.
Eventually I moved from my parent's house, when I was in that session of my life, I wasn't going around looking for a black neighborhood or if the apartment complex where i was buying had any racial dissemination.
When I moved to Maryland, I was looking at an area called Bowie... The first thing someone told me, "Bowie is a black Neighborhood", "Crofton is mixed with Mexicans, Colombians and white collar american families", With the exception of Baltimore that mostly has junkies.
The years I was here, this experience unconsiously to me started planting this seed in my head. I could no longer see through colors and races, i have to admit there is a lot of consious dissemination in this part of the states, perhaps more in the part of where you live, than the part of where your kids go to.
In Puerto Rico you don't buy a house, depending what school is near. Because most schools you want your kids to go to are private, the public school system sucks... Here in Maryland and pretty much of the states the value of the property increases with the school you go to.
I am not trying to move around topics, just trying to picture here how is it in Puerto Rico and how is it here in the states, in terms of the mixes and integration... I don't know if you see my point...
Without going in too deep in the problems, Puerto Rico is a great place to live, yes there is crime, and problems seem bigger and there are bigger problems, but the economy is bad everywhere and affects everyone... In Puerto Rico everything is noticed faster because we are a small lot of land, compared to any state (100miles long by 35 across).
I still keep my apartment there and my wife and I always do a 1 month vacation down there almost every year.
Next week my wife and I are moving to Texas, to see if we get a bit of a relief in the conomy because in Maryland its just bad.
My .02 cents
Nice post. Except the part where you totally discredit your own point about PR being a great place to live. You meant to say PR is a great place to VISIT, as demonstrated by your month vacation to the island. If PR was a great place to live, you'd do 11 month stints down there with the wife and kids and visit maryland one month a year. Oh by the way, PR unemployment has a balmy 15% unemployment, in Elkhart IN they were wiggin' out about that number last month, in PR that's just another day at the office.
As to the racial integration of Puerto Rico, your point is noted. It is relevant to point out that in PR the social construct is largely folklorically homogeneous. Not so in the states. So any perceived integration is more a product of cultural homogeneity than any true progressive view of race (which they must certainly do not have). It's splitting hairs but it's relevant to the discussion.
The rest of your post regarding the school system is spot on.
I've lived in Chicago and I hated it because the "Puerto Rican" kids/adults would say I'm "Boricua", but they only knew reggaeton and rice and beans;nothing more. I met Puerto Ricans there that had white skin or light eyes and they constantly said "I don't look Puerto Rican, I look white" or if the person didn't act ghetto than they were acting "white" Of course, you have the ignorance of the non-Latinos who think that every Latino is an immigrant, is brown, isn't educated,etc. Thankfully, I also got to live on the island and no, it wasn't the metro, but contrary to what's been said about the REST of the island, where I lived was very diverse. It wasn't shocking to see a Puerto Rican with white or black skin-anything in between, blue,green,brown,grey,etc. eyes, tanned with light eyes, white with dark eyes,etc. It wasn't shocking to hear surnames like Fraticelli, Curet, Wiscovitch or of course, Lopez,Morales. The people in Puerto Rico were way more educated, dressed,organized,not so uptight--it was simply better. Puerto Ricans from the island are VERY diverse and they have this touch to them that can not be described. I truly hope that they never decide to become a state because that will have a negative outcome on who they are, in my opinion.
It still amazes me that no one wants any association with black at any time and this includes Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic (please note Dominicans for the most part DO NOT accept black heritage), Cuba and most Latin American countries. People are very quick to say the African/black on the island died out years ago but meanwhile clinging to very little Taino hertiage. It is a fact that most Puerto Ricans consider themselves white. Even on the CD board mention that there are black spanish people, and everyone is in an uproar.
The average tourist visiting Puerto Rico never learns about the African history that is vivid and alive throughout the island. Too often, the Spanish and indigenous roots of Puerto Rico are highlighted to tourists while the African heritage is left unspoken. For many years, the Black history of Puerto Rico was even missing from Puerto Rico's history books. Thankfully as a new generation of conscious Puerto Ricans, both Black and mixed explore their African heritage, this erasure is ending. Please do research on Loiza, PR
The West Africans brought to the island spoke "bozal" Spanish, a mixture of Portuguese, Spanish, and Congo. Many Puerto Ricans have the habit of swallowing the "s," and often pronounce the "r" as an "l". This is because in the African tongue there is no "s" or "r" sound.
Sure TODAY there are European, Asian, and other cultures influence in PR. But let everyone tell it their influence is strictly European and people take it as fact.
So are you contradicting the blacks themselves, who say they are the most oppressed, here in the USA?
I'm thinking what was meant was, Kenyans and Nigerians, i.e. Africans, not African Americans (descendants of slaves, i.e. American "blacks") I think the point was lost in translation. Most Africans, tend to have a measure of success here in the U.S. where as, African Americans, had to overcome, racism, discrimination blah blah, to get their success. Next.
One thing you have to think about is that unlike the USA, Puerto Rico never had the "one drop" rule, so you could have African ancestry and not be judged on that. You would still be considered Puerto Rican and Hispanic.
why would puerto have an option as hispanic, hispanic is a US label only. as labels pr does have black., white, mulatto, taino. no latin american countries uses the words latinos/ hispanvic as a identity. as far as being pr of course they are, years and years ago some individuals pushed for nationalism
Quote:
In the USA, the one drop rule means a black person could be very white in appearance(as some of my relatives from way back were/are) and still be considered black by the rule of having "one drop" of African blood
.
no white looking individuals are gonna be percieved as black, the looks are different
Quote:
USA society was set up during its inception to exclude anyone with African ancestry. For many reasons that idea has failed but the one drop rule still has prevailed in many minds.
lol the US always take the wrap for one drop rule in mexico, thers a small black community of afro mexicans and those of who are mixed with white leaves the community and go into mainstream and percieve themselves as meztizos
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