To Return or Not To Return... (crime, credit card, loan)

[chacho_keva]

Ever since leaving in 1979, I've dreamed of returning to Puerto Rico...the place I still call home. As some of my childhood friends and family have already done, I too have looked forward to making the proverbial "U Turn" and return to the land of my birth while I'm still relatively young and healthy.

With the exception of a seven year span, I visit the island once or twice per year. As with most other places, I've witnessed changes in our culture, attitudes, behaviors, ambition (or lack thereof). I've seen my lovely island become inundated, not by hurricanes and storms, but by the influx of illegal immigrants predominantly from the Dominican Republic. Likewise, I've also met people (legal or not) from Cuba, Mexico, Ecuador, Nicaragua, and Iran. Surely there are others, but these are the ones I've personally met or have had contact with.

It causes me great pain to read or hear about the magnitude of senseless violence on an almost weekly basis. I cannot comprehend how the government cannot come to grips with the fact that Puerto Rico is an island (not a continent) and thus requires an aggressive solid waste management policy which places greater dependence on waste-to-energy and less on ladfilling.

Three years ago, I helped my best friend make the move back to the island. After much work, we found a qualified buyer to purchase his Florida home, and got a loan for the buyer. We then located a property in PR for my friend and got him a loan. Three years later...and after much work, my best friend is considering moving back to Florida. Why? Crime, inadequate health care, lack of job opportunities to name a few.

My friend wants to make a "U Turn" back to Florida. His desires and my yearly observations force me to question my long range plan of returning to Puerto Rico permanently.

Has any one else changed their plans of going back to Puerto Rico for similar reasons?

[MKE-Ed]

Over the years, I have seen many people from Puerto Rico that I grew up with in Chicago experience the same thing. They came here to the states in the late 60s, 70s and some in the early 80s. After living here on the mainland for many years, they visit the island and see how much it has changed. They start to think that perhaps they, too can make a go of it and then decide to move back. Once they have spent some time there, the reality of life on the island starts to hit them. Like you said, the poor health care, the out of control crime, the problem with so many ilegals, the poor paying jobs and the general lack of job opportunities start to really take their toll.

These are people that sold their homes. small busineses and then had to come back to the mainland to start all over again. My parents saw this happen too many people they knew years ago. This is why they never went back. Once you have lived here on the mainland, you really start to get use to a certain way of life and when you go back to the island, you realize how screwed up things are still there. The sad thing is, it doesn't look like its going to get any better any time soon. Way too many people on the island have an entitlement mentality, don't care to work, and rely too heavily on welfare benefits to live on.

There is now a generation or two of people on the island that have never worked a job in their lives. To make matters worse, many of the decent paying factory jobs that were in Puerto Rico years ago have now left to other places like China, Mexico and the Dominican Republic because of the cheaper labor. This was once an area that Puerto Rico had a very big advantage in for many years. Not any more. The island political leaders failed to see this for what is was and never tried to make the island more competitive. My mother was there a year ago and she told me that many of the younger people on the island that are college educated are now starting to leave and move to Florida, New Jersey and New York. This is due to a lack of job opportunities on the island. If you really want to move back, I would really think about this long and hard before you make a final decision.

[chacho_keva]

Originally Posted by MKE-Ed

Over the years, I have seen many people from Puerto Rico that I grew up with in Chicago experience the same thing. They came here to the states in the late 60s, 70s and some in the early 80s. After living here on the mainland for many years, they visit the island and see how much it has changed. They start to think that perhaps they, too can make a go of it and then decide to move back. Once they have spent some time there, the reality of life on the island starts to hit them. Like you said, the poor health care, the out of control crime, the problem with so many ilegals, the poor paying jobs and the general lack of job opportunities start to really take their toll.

These are people that sold their homes. small busineses and then had to come back to the mainland to start all over again. My parents saw this happen too many people they knew years ago. This is why they never went back. Once you have lived here on the mainland, you really start to get use to a certain way of life and when you go back to the island, you realize how screwed up things are still there. The sad thing is, it doesn't look like its going to get any better any time soon. Way too many people on the island have an entitlement mentality, don't care to work, and rely too heavily on welfare benefits to live on.

There is now a generation or two of people on the island that have never worked a job in their lives. To make matters worse, many of the decent paying factory jobs that were in Puerto Rico years ago have now left to other places like China, Mexico and the Dominican Republic because of the cheaper labor. This was once an area that Puerto Rico had a very big advantage in for many years. Not any more. The island political leaders failed to see this for what is was and never tried to make the island more competitive. My mother was there a year ago and she told me that many of the younger people on the island that are college educated are now starting to leave and move to Florida, New Jersey and New York. This is due to a lack of job opportunities on the island. If you really want to move back, I would really think about this long and hard before you make a final decision.

Thanks for your input my brother. If I should ever go back permanently, it will be as a retiree. I don't plan on going to PR to look for work in order to survive. If I decide to work after retirement, it will only be because I want to, and not because I have to.

But still, the health care and crime issues are critical concerns. My other critical concern is the waste management issue. Think about it...a population of almost 3 million with high purchasing power on a 100 X 35 mile island can only result in high volumes of waste generation. Given the island's limited surface area, there's little room for the excavation of new landfills. The few existing landfills have few years of fill life remaining. What happens when these are full and can no longer accomodate the 16,000+ TONS OF GARBAGE generated in Puerto Rico each and every day? I don't understand how the local gov't fails to acknowledge the obvious and not seek to implement waste-to-energy more aggressively.

If I were to reason with my heart, I'd have returned to Puerto Rico several years ago. However, when I analyze things mentally, I seriously have to question my desire to move back to Puerto Rico...the place I still call home.

[Trucker7]

If you will be retired, you can choose to stay away from the big cities and settle on a small town. IIRC, either Las Marías or Lares hasn't had a murder in years, I don't remember which one is it. Also, I've seen that most people in the small mountain towns are a lot more friendlier than city folks. In San Juan people seem to be stressed out all the time and looking for a fight.

[hindsight2020]

Don't do it. Best bet would be as chacho said; as a retiree. And even then do it in a snowbird fashion. There is no future down there for people to create a life for themselves in the way it's still marginally possible to attain in the CONUS.

The biggest thing is the quality of life. Mainlanders who do not know PR from a more intimate POV than those generationally related to the island make the mistake of equating living in PR to general Caribbean living according to the Bacardí commercials: everybody is pretty, drinking to their hearts content and dancing every night. Bunk. It's a hard life down there. Even if you make good money you're surrounded by a culture of disorder, low expectations, economic blight and general apathy. Couple that with a sense of entitlement and you get a pretty unsafe standard of living. Is perma-80 degree weather worth racketeering-level taxation and high odds of getting shot in the face at any stop light because of a little traffic disagreement? I think not. In the CONUS, you can still isolate yourself somewhat from the hot areas, in PR you cannot. Choose to live in the mountains and you're going back to the 19th century, where running water cuts every day and consistent electric service seems like a miracle. And don't get injured in the countryside, emergency services and health care in general are lacking sorely in the island outside San Juan.

Property taxes are through the roof. They're instituting an extra percentage just to keep the coffers from going more in the red. Both my parents retired from the PR state govt and live there. They can tell you their level of frustration with the taxation machine down there. There is currently no single state absent Hawaii where the combination of taxes and cost of living would be higher than Puerto Rico, on a dollar for dollar earned that is. That's way a high price to pay for 80 degree weather if you ask me. On top of that the govt is laying off people from govt positions by the boatload, many here would applaud that, but of course nobody has clue effing one where these people are gonna go when private industry is nonexistent and pulling anchor and leaving every single day. You just added to the welfare rolls. Young people have bachelor's degree by the boatload as well, and they have a middle manager position at a KFC franchise to show for it. Most who are not stuck on the false nationality identity crisis "boricua" bull-hit are continuing to depart to the mainland in search of employment and education avenues that would make them more English proficient and thence employable. And good on them.

Many of the gen X folks and late baby boomers who desire to come back to the island are simply stuck in a nostalgic view of what they THINK the island would be like. Then they commit financial and personal resources and get slapped in the face with the reality on the ground. Like hitting the beaches of Normandy, down goes that platform and machine gun fire in the face.

I've said once and I'll say it again. PR has relegated itself to be a great place to visit, but a terrible place to live. Buy a retirement property, and live down there part-year. Retain all the access to 21st century services and relative cultural order you've been paying taxes for up here in the first place. Good luck in your decision.

[Sunscape]

A great place to visit, that is correct. Not to live.
It could only be as a snowbird, for some months each years, if you don't work anymore, I agree.

[efrenb5]

Maybe as a retiree moving back would be a good idea and as it has been said, only move somewhere away from San Juan, the farther the better. Also, try to avoid places like Ponce. Maybe San Juan is the more stressed of the cities in PR, but this doesn't mean it's the only stressed out city out there.

I've been born and raised in PR, still live in the island, and I'm crazy to relocate to the Mainland. I don't know why someone would like to try to move back to the island for work. As it has been said, work options here are not good and farther from San Juan it gets worst.

My advice, just keep visiting the island. Maybe a week at a time. Once you are ready to retire, maybe think about moving back to the island.

[flburgos]

I was born in puerto rico,then my parents got divorced and so my mother moved my siblings and i to Boston when i was 3 yrs old.I met my spouse here in Boston and so we decided to move back to Puerto Rico since her parents lived there and this where she grew up,i also had family there as well..We both worked and decided to start a family there..We had 2 children a boy and girl.We all know that when you have children you start to notice the things that happen around you more closely.So my wife and i decided that raising our children there with all the crime and a very poor school system that Puerto rico was not going to be our place at that particular time.We decided to move to Boston and raise the children here..It was the best decision we made because they are both in great schools and god has blessed us with a nice home that we own and the kids are doing great! We would like to move back there but i think our next move when the kids finish their education and we are ready to take a step back and relax is going to be Florida..It's the next thing that's close to Puerto Rico as far as the weather,beaches,relaxation,etc,etc..I Love Puerto Rico but the island has changed in so many different ways.Crime on the island is very scary,we are talking 2 to 3 homicides every other day..Crime is everywhere but in this case such a small island with close to 1000 homicides a year is alarming..People are so use to hearing about homicides so much that it's not a big deal anyomre..I've talked to locals and mentioned that someone got killed last night and they just say "eso es por droga" "drug related"..I get that part, but the concerning part is how they don't care anymore..It has become a part of living on the island...I will be back there to visit relatives but as far as going back with my family to stay "not gonna happen"..I love my homeland but it has changed for the worst in many ways.

[MKE-Ed]

Originally Posted by flburgos

I was born in puerto rico,then my parents got divorced and so my mother moved my siblings and i to Boston when i was 3 yrs old.I met my spouse here in Boston and so we decided to move back to Puerto Rico since her parents lived there and this where she grew up,i also had family there as well..We both worked and decided to start a family there..We had 2 children a boy and girl.We all know that when you have children you start to notice the things that happen around you more closely.So my wife and i decided that raising our children there with all the crime and a very poor school system that Puerto rico was not going to be our place at that particular time.We decided to move to Boston and raise the children here..It was the best decision we made because they are both in great schools and god has blessed us with a nice home that we own and the kids are doing great! We would like to move back there but i think our next move when the kids finish their education and we are ready to take a step back and relax is going to be Florida..It's the next thing that's close to Puerto Rico as far as the weather,beaches,relaxation,etc,etc..I Love Puerto Rico but the island has changed in so many different ways.Crime on the island is very scary,we are talking 2 to 3 homicides every other day..Crime is everywhere but in this case such a small island with close to 1000 homicides a year is alarming..People are so use to hearing about homicides so much that it's not a big deal anyomre..I've talked to locals and mentioned that someone got killed last night and they just say "eso es por droga" "drug related"..I get that part, but the concerning part is how they don't care anymore..It has become a part of living on the island...I will be back there to visit relatives but as far as going back with my family to stay "not gonna happen"..I love my homeland but it has changed for the worst in many ways.

In your post, you talk about how much the island has changed. In your opinion, what do you feel has led to all the negative changes in the past 10-15 years? I hear many people say the same thing , but many are divided or uncertain as to what led to the negative changes.

[chacho_keva]

Originally Posted by MKE-Ed

In your post, you talk about how much the island has changed. In your opinion, what do you feel has led to all the negative changes in the past 10-15 years? I hear many people say the same thing , but many are divided or uncertain as to what led to the negative changes.

In my opinion, there are several factors which have created or contributed to Puerto Rico's current dilemmas.

For starters, there are just too many people packed into a tiny island. Though I'm not sure of the exact numbers, I've heard the population is almost three million; three million people who need housing, food, water, transportation, education, medical services, electrical services, employment, etc. Three million people on a tiny island will put a great strain on local and/or imported resources.

The majority of those three million people have high purchasing power by way of credit cards. And as we all know, the more a person purchases, the more waste they produce. As a result, the island's landfills are close to capacity and NO ONE seems to have the cojones to push for waste-to-energy.

So, we have three million persons needing work. When jobs fail to materialize, some will turn to illegal activities such as robbing or drug dealing, ergo higher than normal crime stats.

My solution?
Place a limit on the amount of people that are allowed to live in Puerto Rico, especially the amount of foreigners.

Make public transportation viable. This will encourage people to give up their personal vehicles more willingly.

Build at least 4 waste-to-energy plants which will convert Puerto Rico's 16,000 tons per day of garbage into electrical power.

Promote reduce, reuse recycle as a way of life.

Apply the death penalty to anyone who is convicted of being a major drug dealer such as "Angelo Millones." Apply stiff incarceration sentences with payback clauses for anyone convicted of dealing drugs.

Have world class vocational schools.

Promote the Military as a potential career choice. This will teach discipline and austerity to many people.