$546 Overpayment from 2017 - notified May 2019 - (collecting, claim, fill, money)

[janja1]

You still might be able to get the fraud stuff / penalties overturned, especially if you can show the classes hadn't even started yet. That was one thing I submitted -- a school calendar to show that classes hadn't even started yet.

What makes it harder is that some schools write up the contract where it shows the percentage of hours you are teaching -- so it seems like you are being paid hourly, but you are not. You are actually being paid per class per semester.

At my school that actually pays per contact hour -- I don't get paid the same amount for each class because some classes meet more hours than others (with holidays, etc.). Ironically, even at that school - they take the amount of the contract and divide it among equal pays. So the paycheck is not a true reflection of the hours worked that period because I don't get a different amount on the pay period following a holiday (that I wasn't paid for). The only time my paycheck would be a different amount would be if I got docked for calling off. (And even then, it is not the pay period immediately following the day I missed.)

To make matters worse (though better in ways) is that since it takes so long to get paid at that school (because they don't pay until after you have worked the hours) they now have it were some instructors get a one time payment early in the semester - BUT then that amount is deducted equally from each of our 8 "equal" paychecks. But the paycheck doesn't reflect that deduction. It just shows an hourly rate that is less than the hourly rate you really get paid.

So I make X amount per hour per our contract. And I make X amount per hour for office hours. And I get a "prepay" at the beginning of the semester. But none of that shows up on the pay stubs. It just shows a DIFFERENT X amount that blends it all together (into equal payment).

So how in the heck are you supposed to show what you REALLY earned for any given week???

At the school that pays per class per semester - I get the same amount per class, no matter how many hours it meets. They pay X amount per class. They also don't dock for missing a class. The semester is 16 weeks. But the pay reflects a longer period than that. We don't actually get paid for "prep time" - except that it considered part of the X amount per class - AND except in the case a class is cancelled. If a class there is cancelled -- they pay 10% of the contract for the time you spent preparing. (The other school - it is just tough luck... sorry... no pay).

BUT -- there is not a definite time set aside that is reflected in the pay. For instance, since my Fall "pay periods" don't even start until the period from Sept 1 - Sept 15 (though I started teaching August 19) - if I did happen to have the class cancelled -- and got paid the "prep time" - it wouldn't show that until the pay period starting Sept. 1. So to UI, it would look like I worked during that pay period -- when it would have actually been prior to August 19.

ETA -- Ah.. I might actually get an August 16 - August 31 pay period this year. I think they got my contract in on time. (It takes them forever to process those....)

Looking over my pay stubs from that school --

Though Spring Semester actually starts Mid-January -- I show a paycheck for Jan 1 - Jan 15 (before school starts). Does that reflect preparation time? I doubt it, because Fall Semester starts Mid August -- BUT my first Fall paycheck is for September 1 - September 15. But then I get paychecks all the way through December 15 - December 31 (though Finals are finished in early December).

So they just scatter everything out over some equal pays -- that don't actually reflect the real times you actually worked.

Most information you find about when adjuncts should apply for benefits also advise to go by first day in the classroom and last day in the classroom. I don't know about that -- because there is prep time. BUT, unless your pay stub specifically shows you specifically got paid for specifically attending a meeting or preparing for classes, I don't think you can assume that is what it is for. It is just academia's weird way of paying people.

[janja1]

Originally Posted by Chyvan

Janja1, once again, your experience amazes me. I never would have thought of this in a million years because I've always been a paid-by-the-hour kind of employee.

Read up on it because I might need your help 2 years from now when they decide the overpaid me last year...

[Chyvan]

Or they say, "hey, you called us to ask a question. That raises an able and available issue."

UI is about WORK for MONEY. My thinking is that if you don't get paid for the prep time, then any money you get isn't work for money, and doesn't count unless there is a specific statute that addresses it.

[janja1]

Originally Posted by Chyvan

Or they say, "hey, you called us to ask a question. That raises an able and available issue."

UI is about WORK for MONEY. My thinking is that if you don't get paid for the prep time, then any money you get isn't work for money, and doesn't count unless there is a specific statute that addresses it.

They sure found a way to get me to quit calling...

I am thinking what is going on could be similar to people who say "I think I was fired because..." The OP looked up pay records and thought..." Hmmm I got paid... it must have been for.... "

I think they have a good chance to get the penalties thrown out... if not the over payment. Even if the OP already admitted fault for not turning in pay they didn't know they were going to get that seems to be for work before they actually worked... I think the OP could explain (at a hearing) that they didn't realize they were going to be paid when they certified for benefits (because they hadn't worked yet) and they mistakenly thought they were at fault when they got the over-payment letter because they looked it up and saw they had been paid - BUT they now know they were not at fault because they had been correct in reporting the earnings when they earned them; not when they got paid for them (which in this case was before they actually worked for them...). (I know it needs to be smoother than I explained it, though...)

Perhaps if the OP tried to explain to the ALJ all the different aspects of pay for all four of the schools... they ALJ might go into a trance and just throw the whole thing out.

For the OP -- Get copies of your contracts -- School starting dates -- etc. It is too hard to figure out how much you get paid for actually working any specific week. But unless your contract or pay stubs specifically say that you get paid for meeting with the Department Chair -- or prep time -- you probably were NOT getting paid for those things (i.e. As Chyvan says -- you didn't earn the money yet - and UI goes by when you earn the money; not when you got paid.)

You probably have a contract that shows how much you get per hour or class. That plus evidence of when the classes started should be helpful.

[janja1]

Your school's online account should have copies of the start and end dates of all of your classes. My records show the start and end dates of all my classes back to 2008 under the class rosters / schedules.

[Rebelrona]

Thanks Chyvan - I appreciate the encouragement. I will appeal and see what happens. And can't thank you and everyone for help in understanding this. I reacted very emotional but now I realize it's a process - one step at a time.

[Chyvan]

Originally Posted by Rebelrona

I reacted very emotional but now I realize it's a process - one step at a time.

Now, you get it. I know it hurts to have people think you're fraud, but thousands before you have done worse. As janja1 taught me, the rules of adjuncts are just not something that a typical UI worker can handle. Your thread has further expanded that understanding because I had no idea that the pay policies and potential differences in reporting could be so divergent.

You'll do fine at your hearing.

[Rebelrona]

Originally Posted by janja1

Your school's online account should have copies of the start and end dates of all of your classes. My records show the start and end dates of all my classes back to 2008 under the class rosters / schedules.

unfortunately it's a newer school and they've changed systems twice in the two years I've been teaching for them. But On my calendar it shows I started teaching August 31st which is the week after the two weeks in question -but I must have gotten paid for meetings and prep as I see now they paid me a little bit for those two weeks and that was what the overpayment was - i just don't recall why I wouldn't put down that I worked - the thing is - in retrospect, I wouldn't have known 100% what they were paying me anyway - as they have different pays for contact hours versus this and that - now they just simplified it to one fee per course. Also I was a last minute hire there.

Again, between us - I made an error but I didn't know it. Not until I received their letter this past May for the benefits from 2 years ago. They will either believe me or not - but it's the truth - Those penalties are too harsh for a simple mistake or as what I'm reading online here - unintentional. it was a simple error and I didn't know it at the time. If I had known it, I would have called them and tried to rectify it.

[Chyvan]

Originally Posted by Rebelrona

But On my calendar it shows I started teaching August 31st which is the week after the two weeks in question -but I must have gotten paid for meetings and prep as I see now they paid me a little bit for those two weeks and that was what the overpayment was

Don't be so quick to take the blame. After what janja1 posted, I'm not so sure that you have any overpayment at all let alone penalties to try to get removed.

You present YOUR evidence to make a case that you did NOT WORK for MONEY during the time in question. You let EDD do their job at the hearing. Don't take the blame or short yourself because you think that you might not be entitled to the money just because you get paid. It's what you were paid FOR that is the factor. It has to be for WORK. You can just as easily make a case that it was an advance.

[Rebelrona]

Could you explain more about making a case it was an advance? I was new to the school and new to UI benefits so I'm quick to say I did not know all the intricacies necessary. It's a bit complicated.