Why do people like sprawl? (suburb, population, landscape, compared)

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Honestly, I think such comments do more harm than good. It's a choice of where to live, not a personality flaw. If you want a disconnect from nature, the best place to live is in an urban loft or high-rise. Many of us in the burbs garden and grow some of our own food.


And if you want to find drugs in the city, ask any teenager. It's not just a suburban problem. Teens in any environment are "bored" and commit nuisance crimes. Just ask a group of 'em. They're all bored, poor dears! (I raised two, BTW)

Suburban parents somehow think that their children are immune by not living in the city. Teens in an urban/city environment generally have more options for entertainment, yes they may be bored, but it is a different kind.

[destinedtodave]

Originally Posted by Bobilee

These are the same people who, when they drive into the city, park across the pedestrian crosswalks, turn right on red when signs say "NO TURN ON RED" and drive while talking on cell phones.

Oh, and I assume you have statistics and a reputable source to back this up? Why even make a comment like this, with no basis in reality that just goes along with your stereotype of suburbanites.

Look, I absolutely love living in the city right now-I mean I'm living in London, which I guarentee is more urban than any of your cities unless you live in NYC. But I grew up in the suburbs and think many of you are giving them a bad rap. I will say that it wasn't the type of cul-de-sac new construction subdivision, it was homes built in the 70's and a mixed neighborhood at that. A cul-de-sac must be nice for a family though, less traffic, a sense of community in your "sac", and the kids can play basketball in it without worry of traffic.

One thing I keep hearing over and over and over...is about this "cookie cutter"
phenomenon. i can't argue that many homes built in the last 15 years look alike, but I've got some news for you: Aside from a few nice architectural buildings, in most cities you'll find "cookie cutter" urban dwellings. I mean how much variance in 12 story apartment buildings? How much variance in row homes?? Sure they may look quaint to you but they look the same, much like the suburbs you despise.

For as tolerant as many of you think you are, you seem very intolerant about peoples choice of where they want to live. Humanity was primarily rural until quite recently so it makes sense alot of people want some open space.

[oakparkdude]

If you believe the writer of this article in the March 2008 Atlantic Monthly The Next Slum?, long term economic and demographic trends will decrease the appeal of sprawlurbia. Arguably that trend is already in progress with the increased demand for and construction of urban, walkable living environments.

[scarletneon]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

I guess that some people don't like getting shot at, mugged, raped, or having their cars and/or houses stolen or broken into.

I love it when people automatically assume that "city" is equivalent to getting raped, mugged, beaten and shot at. oh, and burglarized.

[CHIP72]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

If you believe the writer of this article in the March 2008 Atlantic Monthly The Next Slum?, long term economic and demographic trends will decrease the appeal of sprawlurbia. Arguably that trend is already in progress with the increased demand for and construction of urban, walkable living environments.

I think it will be interesting to see how the American public in general reacts to increasing gas prices over the next say 10 years. Will people desire to live in the mixed-use, more compact spaces that cities and towns offer, or will they continue to live in land use segregated and lower density spaces commonly found in suburbs? Obviously there are trade-offs with living in either type of location, but the negative trade-offs of living in suburbs or rural areas will increase at a faster rate as gas prices increase than will the negative trade-offs of living in cities or larger towns.

[censusdata]

One other reason: the market allows it

Sprawl must have several ingredients to exist:
1. Lots of cheap, undeveloped land outside of cities
2. Very cheap gasoline costs to make automobiles the standard of transportation
3. Governments which have enough money to fund the huge amount of new infrastructure per capita that sprawl requires

All of these ingredients are rapidly disappearing. Land is rising in price w/ many areas (esp. in the West) are running out of it, gas prices have doubled in the past 4 years, and governments at all levels are running huge budget deficits

[detshen]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

Are you open to the possibility that you might be the one who is unintelligent?

Try to think about why people might choose to purchasing cookie cutter homes. Hello...cost of hiring an architect and construction of a unique house. I'm sure everyone would love to live in a house designed by a modern day equivalent of Frank Lloyd Wright, but few people can afford to do that!

What the hell does insecurity have to do with any of it? I guess that some people don't like getting shot at, mugged, raped, or having their cars and/or houses stolen or broken into. Other folks might be seeking better school districts for their children. Does that desire reflect an irrational "insecurity"? Would you recommend that people who live in the metro Detroit area actually purchase a house in the City of Detroit? Why should people sacrifice their desires and well being so that some guy on an Internet discussion forum will deem them to no longer be "insecure"?

The desire to move away from criminals, to surround yourself with a higher class and higher quality of people, and to be able to send your children to better schools is not irrational nor immoral.

I would never recommend people in metro Detroit who have children buy homes in the city because of most of the schools are very bad, but I live in the city of Detroit and my neighbors are good hardworking people who love their families, but can't afford the suburbs. On Monday afternoon I see the kids come home from school and the boys put out the garbage cans, and Tuesday after school they put them away. That's called chores and the parents (yep, we have dads too) instilling good behaviour in children. Who are you to judge that they are low quality people just because you are fortunate enough to have the choice to live a suburb?

I'm tired of suburbanites claiming Detroit is nothing but a worthless ghetto full of worthless people. My windows don't have bars, I don't hear gunshots ever and I never even seen a crime. I won't deny there are many dangerous neighborhoods, but there is also a growing downtown that is very safe for people to live, work and play. I spend my weekends enjoying the many excellent restaurants and clubs in the city.

I have enough money to move to the suburbs, but when I move I'm going to a loft in the city. Detroit isn't a great option if you have children unless you can afford private school, but I'm so tired of the constant implication that every single neighborhood in the city is filled with gunshots and bad parents. Real people and real children live there and don't deserve the constant negativity directed toward them.

[breethecowgirl]

Originally Posted by metro223

High quality of life, nice neighbors, less drugs, nice homes, clean stores, nice parks, better road system, less crime, could be closer to work.. etc.

+1
Slowly everyday, more and more people hate the suburban lifestyle. I'm from Houston, half the city is practically a giant suburb. Seriously, once you get outside the 610 loop, you don' even feel like your in Houston anymore.

[Chinolala]

In many large cities, like Chicago, you can have a home, fenced yard, decent schools, shopping, good roads, etc. and still live in the city. I think there's a "knee jerk" reaction when thinking of "the city". It's not just downtown. Most large cities have many family oriented neighborhoods. With that said, cities have crime, as do suburbs. The crimes may be a different type of crime. As someone who grew up in the city, when crime was worse than it is today in my city (Chicago), I felt very safe as a child in the city. There were always people milling around. Walking down a main street in the city felt safer than walking down an isolated one in the suburbs. I live in the suburbs now, but will say that it's based on affordability. I live about 6 city blocks outside of Chicago limits, so I'm close to the city (13 miles to downtown). I can see the allure of sprawl for some, but for me, many suburbs feel too insular, generic and isolated. I've noticed watching my local news, that many crimes against children seem to be in the suburbs. Kids in the suburbs seem to be more vulnerable to kidnappings and abductions. Most gang crime, drug crime, etc. seems to be in the city, but not in the areas that many families live in. Many bad elements are moving into some of our suburbs because they're cheaper to live in. This is making large parts of the city more expensive to live in. So the decision is more house further out or smaller house closer in. What some families pay in gas or monthly train passes to get to work from the outlying suburbs, it would be a wash if they lived in the city and had a larger mortgage payment and in many cases, less real estate taxes. To each their own.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Acupunk

I think fear plays a large part in it. Americans are so afraid, especially american parents so they search for that perfect bubble of safety to feel protected from all the perceived horrible dangers out there. The media feeds this fear, the news is always skewed to have us believe we are in constant danger.

I see a lot of stereotyping and generalizing here. I sort of think you are not a parent, or you wouldn't lump all of us in the same basket. I/we were not looking for a "bubble of safety" when we bought our first house, which was in the burbs. We didn't even have kids, and thought it might be years away. We didn't ask about schools. Yes, there are issues of concern to parents that non-parents don't think about, but to think we are all trembling in our boots is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by jonjj

People rely on their car as a mode of travel-hence, sprawl. There has to be places for that car to park and move. They would rather drive ten blocks to the store then walk two. They do not want to be around other people, especially those that are different from them. They live on fear.

See my commentary on the fear issue above. "They" is a poor way to talk about people, especially those that are different! This walkable business has been talked about ad infinitum on other threads. There are some suburbs that are very walkable. There are some that are not. There are city neighborhoods that require driving to the grocery store as well. I know because I have lived in the city, actually two cities, Denver and Pittsburgh. One daughter lives in Denver and one in Boulder, both drive to the grocery store.

Originally Posted by K-Luv

Suburban parents somehow think that their children are immune by not living in the city. Teens in an urban/city environment generally have more options for entertainment, yes they may be bored, but it is a different kind.

I disagree. Other than the opportunity to attend major league sporting events, which most teens can't afford anyway, the options for teens are about the same in the burbs as the city. Movies, skating rinks, restaurants, etc. Teens are too young to go into the bars. I am a suburban parent! I know what I am talking about!

Originally Posted by decafdave

Oh, and I assume you have statistics and a reputable source to back this up? Why even make a comment like this, with no basis in reality that just goes along with your stereotype of suburbanites.

Look, I absolutely love living in the city right now-I mean I'm living in London, which I guarentee is more urban than any of your cities unless you live in NYC. But I grew up in the suburbs and think many of you are giving them a bad rap. I will say that it wasn't the type of cul-de-sac new construction subdivision, it was homes built in the 70's and a mixed neighborhood at that. A cul-de-sac must be nice for a family though, less traffic, a sense of community in your "sac", and the kids can play basketball in it without worry of traffic.

I don't live on a cul-de-sac myself, but there are several in my neighborhood, and that is the lifestyle there.

One thing I keep hearing over and over and over...is about this "cookie cutter"
phenomenon. i can't argue that many homes built in the last 15 years look alike, but I've got some news for you: Aside from a few nice architectural buildings, in most cities you'll find "cookie cutter" urban dwellings. I mean how much variance in 12 story apartment buildings? How much variance in row homes?? Sure they may look quaint to you but they look the same, much like the suburbs you despise.
AMEN! I have posted same before. Look at all the pictures people submit of their cities. Row houses that all look the same. 1920s bungalows that are all built the same. They may look a little different b/c some have had additions built on them, the paint colors have been changed, someone may have changed out the windows, the landscaping has grown, etc, but they are all the same style of the time!

For as tolerant as many of you think you are, you seem very intolerant about peoples choice of where they want to live. Humanity was primarily rural until quite recently so it makes sense alot of people want some open space.

Again, Amen, bro! (It's Sunday,after all).

Originally Posted by sukwoo

If you believe the writer of this article in the March 2008 Atlantic Monthly The Next Slum?, long term economic and demographic trends will decrease the appeal of sprawlurbia. Arguably that trend is already in progress with the increased demand for and construction of urban, walkable living environments.

This article is being discussed on the Denver forum. Frankly, I would not be inspired by any TV show, especially one as dumb as "Sex and the City", to do anything, but that is one of the author's premises.