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It's easier in some places than others. Vancouver has no real "through" traffic, and London routes its around its edges but is also divided by above-ground rail everywhere except its core. Both have pretty heavy surface stroads.
Seattle is an isthmus, and despite being a devoted pedestrian/bike/transit advocate I was in favor of putting Highway 99 in a tunnel through Downtown rather than routing tens of thousands of cars and trucks per day through Downtown streets. Transit is the answer for those heading to Downtown, but not for the pass-throughs and particularly not for local freight.
One option would be dramatically better transit. That would further reduce car dependency, lower parking demand, encourage more infill, etc.
But honestly right now it's about homeless and street disorder, which have damaged the public sphere. On one hand I'm a West Coast fan and Fox/Sinclair/Infowars are just cherry picking the worst of the worst. But the problem is real. As magical ruler, I'd add more shelters and treatment for the truly needy, clamp way down on public craziness, camping, and theft, and ship the non-broken drop-outs, after an ultimatum, to a god damn island somewhere.
That's a common feeling among voters. It's why Seattle just went moderate-liberal in the last two elections vs. its progressive-dominated recent past.
It's easier in some places than others. Vancouver has no real "through" traffic, and London routes its around its edges but is also divided by above-ground rail everywhere except its core. Both have pretty heavy surface stroads.
Seattle is an isthmus, and despite being a devoted pedestrian/bike/transit advocate I was in favor of putting Highway 99 in a tunnel through Downtown rather than routing tens of thousands of cars and trucks per day through Downtown streets. Transit is the answer for those heading to Downtown, but not for the pass-throughs and particularly not for local freight.
Exactly. The only through traffic off of Highway 1 goes over The Ironworkers Memorial Bridge ( Second Narrows ) on the border between Burnaby and Vancouver, over to the Upper Levels Highway which crosses the Northshore up to Whistler.
Downtown Vancouver, being on a smallish peninsula creates it's own issues in regards to freeways.
I always ask the proponents of connecting Highway 1, through to downtown Vancouver, where is it going to go, and what do you do with all the extra cars once they reach the ocean? Expanding the causeway and Lions Gate Bridge isn't an option or a tunnel.
We certainly aren't going to give up any coastline of parks and the seawall for it. Although early plans that never happened would have seen a freeway along False Creek, continuing through English Bay, Stanley Park and off the the North Shore.
That would have been a disaster for Vancouver, as part of our charm is the seawall and the communities it serves...plus less pollution and quiet.
With magic wand in hand, clicking heels three times, I would timewarp everything back to the pre-automobile urban paradigm.
Mixed use development. Pedestrian friendly. Local and express subway trains (4 track preferably). At grade streetcars / trams / light rail - but lightweight aluminum (like Talgo).
95% of all needs would be within walking distance.
Minimal cars, so children won’t be at risk.
And 50 foot high piles of horse manure everywhere.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25
It's easier in some places than others. Vancouver has no real "through" traffic, and London routes its around its edges but is also divided by above-ground rail everywhere except its core. Both have pretty heavy surface roads.
Seattle is an isthmus, and despite being a devoted pedestrian/bike/transit advocate I was in favor of putting Highway 99 in a tunnel through Downtown rather than routing tens of thousands of cars and trucks per day through Downtown streets. Transit is the answer for those heading to Downtown, but not for the pass-throughs and particularly not for local freight.
The Seattle Highway 99 tunnel was a huge and expensive project, and the toll revenue is just not even close to what was expected and needed to pay back the loans. In addition to the people working from home and hybrid, the new Elliot Way parallel to the closed Alaskan Way is taking many cars away from the tunnel. In my case for example coming in on I90 I pass the tunnel entrance, and go Alaskan to Elliot to my place of work. If I took the tunnel I would go past my office and have to pay a toll and have to drive back to it. There was no attention given to those that work or live between Pioneer Square and South Lake Union, so no exits within the tunnel, just the two ends.
The tunnel and surface street are for very different types of traffic. The tunnel is for pass-throughs heading to SLU, Wallingford, etc. The surface street is for traffic going to Downtown or Interbay, including Elliott Ave (two ts btw). Nobody intended otherwise...notice that Mercer is a two lane road down to Elliott.
But the more the freeways penetrate the city the easier it is to utilize multiple thoroughfares. And what is a thoroughfare? How many stops per mile? It depends on many things like the size of a city, the geography, etc. It's never one size fits all.
Agreed.
But your blanket statement in effect said, "No freeways, no deliveries of goods into the city."
The existence of the two examples I gave counters that. Had Eisenhower gotten his wish and all DC-area freeways ended at the Capital Beltway, DC residents still would find their store shelves stocked.
A lot of the warehousing and logistics hubs in this region are located along Interstate 78, which is the main east-west route through the Lehigh Valley. None of the highways connecting it with Philadelphia is a freeway for its entire length (though segments of State Route 309, which connects Philadelphia with Allentown, are). The one all-freeway route between the two areas uses the Pennsylvania Turnpike Northeast Extension (I-476) to the Schuyllkill Expressway (I-76). The latter was built as a Pennsylvania Turnpike spur (originally State Route 43) into the city, which the Turnpike bypasses to its north.
It's easier in some places than others. Vancouver has no real "through" traffic, and London routes its around its edges but is also divided by above-ground rail everywhere except its core. Both have pretty heavy surface stroads.
Seattle is an isthmus, and despite being a devoted pedestrian/bike/transit advocate I was in favor of putting Highway 99 in a tunnel through Downtown rather than routing tens of thousands of cars and trucks per day through Downtown streets. Transit is the answer for those heading to Downtown, but not for the pass-throughs and particularly not for local freight.
Your implied point about geography is well taken. There are really no good ways around Seattle that would allow you to approach it from some other angle thanks to the lake that separates it from everything to its east. So much of the north-south traffic has to go through Seattle proper. Thus both WA (former US) 99 and I-5.
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is the seawall and the communities it serves...plus less pollution and quiet.
