I-5 bridge replacement taking shape

[StealthRabbit]

Require MAX to run a 'dedicated' I-5 route from Rose Qtr direct to the new I-5 Bridge (with one stop at Delta Park / Paul Bunyan), a bus hub... and that would create a reasonable public transit solution that would make a Lt Rail bridge crossing relevant. or... just add Lt rail to I-205 (IIRC it already has dedicated access for Lt Rail.)

There is no sense running MAX over I-5 when it takes 45 min using MAX on surface level streets (Interstate Ave) to travel a distance that is 7 minutes by vehicle (I-5). (+Dangerous and time wasting to run mass public transit on surface streets).

Eventually and replacement bridge is inevitable, but there are many improvements, including incentives to reduce vehicular traffic on the existing bridge.

Having just spent another week in SoCa (and bay area) there is a point when TOO many cars, = Too many cars! (in SoCA, this traffic is usually sitting in drive-up windows, while the weather is beautiful for a 30 second walk into the business, rather than a 20 - 30 min wait in line. (Idling and creating high emissions).)

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

Require MAX to run a 'dedicated' I-5 route from Rose Qtr direct to the new I-5 Bridge (with one stop at Delta Park / Paul Bunyan), a bus hub... and that would create a reasonable public transit solution that would make a Lt Rail bridge crossing relevant. or... just add Lt rail to I-205 (IIRC it already has dedicated access for Lt Rail.)

There is no sense running MAX over I-5 when it takes 45 min using MAX on surface level streets (Interstate Ave) to travel a distance that is 7 minutes by vehicle (I-5). (+Dangerous and time wasting to run mass public transit on surface streets).

Eventually and replacement bridge is inevitable, but there are many improvements, including incentives to reduce vehicular traffic on the existing bridge.

Having just spent another week in SoCa (and bay area) there is a point when TOO many cars, = Too many cars! (in SoCA, this traffic is usually sitting in drive-up windows, while the weather is beautiful for a 30 second walk into the business, rather than a 20 - 30 min wait in line. (Idling and creating high emissions).)

I agree that there aren't really any great modern mass transit options between Vancouver and downtown Portland. Bigger cities like NYC actually have local and express trains so that you can take faster express trains from farther outlying areas that only stop at 4th subway stop or so and then local trains that stop at every stop. But you need to have four tracks, two in each direction, in order to have both local and express trains.

There are basically four options for improving transit between Vancouver and Portland:

1. Expand light rail across the bridge so that the yellow line runs up I-5 to whatever stopping point (Clark College?). This is the preferred option. What Vancouver should be doing is leveraging whatever improvements can be made to the yellow line to speed up the line along Interstate Ave into Portland (reducing the number of grade crossings, closing off the track right of way, etc. so that trains can move faster. I doubt we will ever see 4-track local and express service like in big cities so the best we can do is just improve the existing line.

2. Expand the C-Tran Vine bus service across the bridge to Delta Park to connect to light rail there. This is worse than option because people would need to switch from bus to train and wait at two different stops to make the trip from Vancouver to Portland. People are calling this "Bus Rapid Transit" or BRT but it isn't. The C-Tran Vine service isn't BRT, it is just bigger buses with fancier stops. A true BRT system has dedicated bus right of ways (exclusive bus lanes) which Vine doesn't have. The Vine buses are stuck in regular traffic.

3. Build an actual BRT line between Vancouver and Portland. This would be the most costly option because it would mean taking one of the existing regular traffic lanes on I-5 and dedicating it to transit-only. Or else building a bus-only expressway between Vancouver and Portland. No one is really proposing this and it would mean major rebuilding and infrastructure all along the system including within downtown Portland where we would need to build new BRT bus stations separate from the existing light rail stations. I don't see that happening. Portland has basically gone with LRT as its mass transit option and they aren't going to built a separate BRT system up to Vancouver just because Clark County doesn't want light rail.

4. Continue existing bus service between Vancouver and Portland. Essentially the do-nothing option. People commuting by transit would be stuck in the same traffic as all the car drivers. This option isn't going to happen because Portland and Oregon are going to insist that Vancouver put on its big boy pants and participate in actual mass transit between the two cities. Portland isn't going to buy off on any bridge expansion that only increases car traffic without providing better transit alternatives. Just not going to happen.

If we were going to start from scratch, we could probably come up with a better light rail system between Portland and Vancouver that would be faster and more direct than the yellow line. Maybe an express rail line running down the center of I-5 or something. But we aren't starting from scratch. Vancouver and Clark County are joining in on the system 30 years after the fact and basically have to deal with the system as it is currently built. Not some ideal system that doesn't exist. We aren't going to build some separate express system just for Vancouver. That is why I say the best that Vancouver can do is leverage this opportunity to make whatever improvements to the yellow line can be made to benefit Vancouver commuters.

[StealthRabbit]

or... run the stinking Max line over a new 1-5 bridge and TERMINATE it at Clark / city center. and have MAX fund it on 'ridership'.

Then every month provide MAX leadership a survey and stats of ridership, as well as what ridership would be with a dedicated express route (Elevated / center of I-5 or similar). CTran could run a dedicated cordoned route for a couple months just to show an example of how FAST (and safe) it could be to commute to Portland via express light rail (Similar to I-84 / 205),

If successful, and when MAX comes to Vancouver with express route... Clark County could have the right-of-ways to Battleground and Ridgefield all secured for elevated express service (Similar to Vancouver BC / Skytrain) with a couple stops at transit centers served by feeder buses (WSU & Van Mall). Probably utilizing the existing rail right-of-way from Ross Sub Station to Battleground. and the existing train ROW direct to Ridgefield, until an upper loop (connection Ridgefield and Battleground pencils out). Jobs and commerce will filter outside of city (Metro) and make that north loop viable.

30-45 min from Northern Clark County to downtown Portland is possible and safe via purposefully designed and implemented Mass Transit (not street level LR)!

[texasdiver]

They wouldn't even have to do that. I was running errands and driving on Interstate Ave along the Yellow line yesterday thinking about what they could do to speed it up.

It would cost a lot of money (all the effective solutions cost a lot of money). But they could elevate that line and isolate it down the middle of Interstate Ave. Or even just isolate off the right of way on ground level by eliminating half the street crossings or making them into underpasses. And trains could zip along so much faster there.

The key to making fast transit is to have dedicated rights of ways that aren't shared with cars or pedestrians so that the trains can just go faster. Or express buses if you want BRT. Trying to run either trains or buses in the middle of car traffic just slows the system down to glacial speed.

The population of Clark County and the Portland metro area is going to continue to grow. Maybe another 1 million people in the next 50 years. Who knows. But instead of building endless low density sprawl up against the foothills of the cascades we should be building high-density housing along transit corridors. And then improve the transit. There is a huge demand for that sort of thing. And people who still want to live 20 miles out in Battle Ground will still have that option.