Considering Moving From Canada to California - Thoughts and Advice Appreciated (Thousand Oaks: house, public schools)
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One question that comes to mind is why you would downgrade your lifestyle by moving to the USA from Canada. Most Canadians would never want to come to a country this dysfunctional.
They're not moving to the USA, they're moving to California, dude.
As others have said, heat can be Southern California's biggest issue in the summer, especially for playground equipment/kids. Ventura County, if I recall correctly, has more microclimates than anywhere in the world About Ventura County – Ventura County Rose Society. So it literally depends on the actual city you wish to be in, Thousand Oaks is typically cooler than Westlake or Simi Valley, but it does still get hot. I lived in Newbury Park/Thousand oaks for 10 years, and I loved how mild the climate is a majority of the time. It is, however, lacking diversity, community, and really much anything to do.
I would strongly suggest Santa Barbara as others have mentioned. I lived there a little less than a year and was blown away by the sense of community, diversity, beach, climate, and beauty of the city. It is VERY walkable/bikable in my opinion, especially once you get to know the surrounding areas. The "burbs" are not very burb-y, they tend to be pretty unique and full of character. It can take a while to find something in your price range, but you would not regret the amount of amenities you will have, and the climate!
While I have not lived in La Jolla/San Diego, I did extensively visit and plan on living there. I would say it has a big city feel, with a lot less traffic than LA, and comparable traffic to SB. It is beautiful, diverse, the climate is amazing.... there tend to be lots of students/young parents in the surrounding areas and you will have no shortage of things to do.
All in all, while I am not trying to steer you away from Thousand Oaks, I just don't see it fulfilling your need for community/diversity. Everyone more or less is concerned only with their own lives, and can come off as maybe snobbish? Not quite the right word, because they can certainly be friendly. While there are movie theaters, restaurants, playgrounds, and a ranking in the top 3 safest cities in the USA, TO is certainly not a "fun" or "impressive" city. Its quiet, safe, and normal, haha.
Thank you, everyone once more for offering your thoughts, comments and perspective. I sincerely appreciate the time people gave up to write a response to a stranger.
Anyway, we've been doing tons of research (forum reading, YouTube, Google etc, many many hours) and are planning a trip in June, starting in San Diego and going all the way up to Santa Barbara.
Based on everyone's comments, we are going to be checking out La Jolla, West Lake Village/Thousand Oaks, and Santa Barbara in particular. The places or place we like we will return to in the winter and stay for a month or two to get a deeper 'feel'.
Based on research so far, it looks like our dollars would buy more home in WLV/TO– pool, big backyard, tons of square footage... this is great with respect to us both working from home...however as others have also pointed out the towns are sleepy, and we are somewhat concerned we may get bored...although LA is a reasonable distance for nights with babysitters etc.. So that might be a decent balance...
My wife and I spent years living in downtown Toronto, and loved being able to walk outside and have a world of different things to do, people to be inspired by etc, but the lack of space for daily living was incredibly frustrating.
La Jolla sounds potentially appealing for the walkability, proximity to downtown San Diego, weather, and 'action'. Some comments across the web however have called it "old money", "weird", "stuffy" and even "too many Persians".
Where we live now, in the burbs north of Toronto, it is just so dull and uninspiring. We lived in a 'hip' area of Toronto (Liberty-Village/King West/ West Queen-West), with a mix of families, but also many young professionals, people who took pride in their appearance (dress/fitness etc), what they drove (here it is all mini-vans and pick-up trucks) which was often motivational (in a good way). Lot's of new businesses, entrepreneurship, start-ups, etc going on around us. We miss that energy level, but trying to find a balance as well between what is suitable to raise a family. So if any other suggestions come to mind, please feel free.
Thanks again to everyone, it has been an enjoyable experience to do this research and learn so much about SoCal.
It's great that you're doing location research, but I still think you are underestimating the difficult process of obtaining an immigrant visa for the US. And snowbirding is not an alternate plan because:
1) No work, online or otherwise, is permitted on a visitor's visa, even if it's online to Canada. If you are on US soil when you go online (easily traced, btw), you're in violation. This can result in a permanent immigration bar.
2) You cannot visit every year for 6 months. This is considered living in the US by going around the rules. If it's a pattern, you can be stopped at the border and sent home.
Please do that research first to avoid disappointment or problems. You can DM me for links to sites to help you (rules forbid links to other forums here).
It's great that you're doing location research, but I still think you are underestimating the difficult process of obtaining an immigrant visa for the US. And snowbirding is not an alternate plan because:
1) No work, online or otherwise, is permitted on a visitor's visa, even if it's online to Canada. If you are on US soil when you go online (easily traced, btw), you're in violation. This can result in a permanent immigration bar.
2) You cannot visit every year for 6 months. This is considered living in the US by going around the rules. If it's a pattern, you can be stopped at the border and sent home.
Please do that research first to avoid disappointment or problems. You can DM me for links to sites to help you (rules forbid links to other forums here).
Hi nightlysparrow –
Thanks for the concern and the thoughtful reply. You bring up a very valid issue. Our timeline is still a year or two out, so we are in the recon stage. For the time being, I was considering going to apply for a non-immigrant work Visa (E2), if we find a location we like. As I may have mentioned previously, I know of a number of other Canadian entrepreneurs who have done the same with considerably smaller businesses. I realize this would have to be renewed every two years. I do need to speak with a specialist about this, and what options may or may not be available, but as our business grows rapidly there may be an opportunity also for physical retail distribution and stores.
Naturally being entrepreneurial, I have always been of the mindset where there is a will there is a way (given enough time and energy).
Thank you for the reminder, and please DM any resources you think would be of help if you are inclined. I mean it when I say thanks for taking the time to craft a reply to a stranger.
Since you say you have young kids, I'd like to warn you to be careful about the public schools because of the teachers. For a long time, the standard contract has made it all but impossible to fire a tenured teacher simply for being bad, as in, seriously mean, lazy, nutty, unfair, ignorant of the subject, and damaging to kids' grades, i.e. one whom every reasonable person would agree just doesn't belong in a classroom. It's human nature to tend to not try very hard to do a good job if it doesn't matter how well you do and you aren't really answerable. Example of how bad: the students in one school actually submitted a petition asking the school to fire a certain teacher. The school said their hands were tied, and the teacher retaliated by hurting the students' course grades (suddenly tougher tests, stricter grading, etc). A group of parents and students tried and failed a few years ago to change the standard contract with a class action suit.
https://www.law360.com/articles/7849...aved-by-appeal
The teachers union is so powerful the politicians won't address this problem. Even the "good" schools with high scores have accumulated some terrible teachers. So, you may want to consider using private schools.
PS, not knocking any place people have suggested here, but Boulder, CO, used to have a lot of what you are looking for socially and might be worth investigating as a backup. Average high in Jan. is around 40 F, snows sometimes but always melts in a few days, a LOT sunnier than Toronto even in winter, and winter is only 3-4 months and turns into a real spring. CO has the lowest obesity rate of any state because so many people are into outdoor activities.
There's good teachers and bad teachers everywhere. Despite what some uber-political people will tell you, US schools are not exceptionally worse than Canadian schools. Engaging with your kids will have much more influence than the occasional bad apple teacher. If you want great K-12 schools, head to East Asia, where the culture of respect for teachers (in society as well as in the classroom) means people value education more, and their children are subsequently more educated upon graduating High School.
LOL@Boulder CO for warm and sunshine. Don't go there unless you really really really like winter (and then you might as well stay in Canada).
We have a detachment in Boulder. We are always razzing them over the phone because they are regularly below 0 (fahrenheight, below ZERO, not freezing!) September through May when we're in the 70's and hanging out at the beach. They are always on a snow or cold delay/early release. I guess that could be considered a perk, but only if you're really into skiing.
Quest can look up the climate stats to compare Toronto and Boulder for himself. Yep, Boulder has a real winter for a few months with occasional snow storms and some mean cold spells. They sure won't be having any yard parties in 70-degree sunshine on New Year's! But the average high in Jan. is in the 40's and the stats show that most January days are partly cloudy or clear. It doesn't have the unbroken weeks and months of subfreezing cold and cloudy days that grind down your spirit in Toronto winters.
There's good teachers and bad teachers everywhere. Despite what some uber-political people will tell you, US schools are not exceptionally worse than Canadian schools. Engaging with your kids will have much more influence than the occasional bad apple teacher. If you want great K-12 schools, head to East Asia, where the culture of respect for teachers (in society as well as in the classroom) means people value education more, and their children are subsequently more educated upon graduating High School.
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This is true. Most upper-middle class, suburban school districts in the US are at least as good as your average Canadian school. The best of these school districts are absolutely world class, rigorous, and competitive--lots of tiger moms, private tutoring, obsession with Ivy Leagues--almost like going to school in Singapore or Taiwan (ok, so maybe that's a bit too competitive.) But you get the idea.
You may have heard about how the U.S. is much more conservative than the U.S., and that is true for the most part, but keep in mind you are moving to California, one of the most liberal states. While California is forced to abide by relatively conservative federal laws proposed by Texas, Utah, and all the other Republican states, if California was its own country, it would be just as, if not more, liberal than Canada. As a point of reference, Alberta (the most conservative Canadian province) has a political climate very close to that of Colorado (a moderate US state that is actually much more conservative than California.) Of course, there are relatively conservative pockets in California, just as how Alberta is the conservative anomaly of Canada. California Republicans would run as Democrats in most other states.
SoCal real estate is more expensive than Toronto, but not as expensive as Vancouver. Bay Area/Silicon Valley real estate, though, is every bit as expensive as Vancouver.
If your main complaint is the cold and the snow, then California will be great. But in my opinion, the Gulf Coast (New Orleans, Florida, Houston) gets better summers than California. Though they have hurricanes, the copious summer rain provides relief from the heat, and the temps seldom reach 100 degrees. Not to mention it stays very warm even well past midnight during the summer, or that the ocean water there is 85 degrees. And yes, the Gulf Coast is very warm during the winter; snow is also extremely rare there.
Over here in California, the coast is too cold and overcast during the summer, and the inland areas are far too hot. It NEVER rains in California during the summer; in the inland, 100+ degree heat waves are frequent, and most days there's not a cloud in the sky, making the heat absolutely insane. Then, at night, a 100 degree day will cool off to 60 degrees. That's too cold. Not to mention that even as far south as San Diego, the "warmest" the ocean will get in the summer is 70.
And don't forget the awful Santa Ana winds!
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