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For a state like Vermont, the problem is that the population is too small to support a wide variety of college-level programs. The Bronx alone has about twice as many residents as Vermont: who would expect the Bronx to offer two full college systems? Unfortunately, the best option for many Vermonters is to leave the state for college. That isn't necessarily bad. My son-in-law is a Tibetan refugee who arrived in the U.S. in 2006 with no college degree and weak English. First he completed a GED in Illinois. Then he attended a community college in Portland, OR for 2 years. He finished at Hopkins in Maryland 2 years later, receiving a B.S. in Nursing in 2011. Now he has solid job skills and could find a job almost anywhere - maybe even Vermont. No one was throwing money at him; he and my daughter financed this themselves.
Vermont has far fewer “asset poor” families than any other state and ranks at or near the top in several key economic and public policy categories, according to a report from the Corporation for Enterprise Development.
The report, “2012 Assets & Opportunity Scorecard,” found that 27 percent of all households in the United States are asset poor, which means that in the event of a job loss, medical problem or other emergency, those families lack the financial resources to cover basic living expenses for three months.
The report ranked Vermont first overall in the country and first in the areas of businesses/jobs and education. The state ranked second in the areas of health care and financial assets and income. In the area of housing and homeownership, the state ranked 10th.
The report (available at CFED Scorecard) said the state’s asset poverty rate was the lowest in the country at 15.7 percent compared with a high in Nevada of more than 45 percent.
Of the six New England states, Vermont had the second largest GDP growth in 2010. Nationally, only eight states (and the District of Columbia) had greater increases, according to figures released by the U.S. Department of Commerce Bureau of Economic Analysis in June 2011.
Pizzagalli claims that Vermont is driving “job creators” from its borders. Vermont no longer has the lowest unemployment rate in the country as it did a few years ago, but it still has an exceptionally low rate at 5.3 percent, compared to the national average of 8.6 percent. Only four states have lower rates, as shown by figures from the U.S. Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The inverse and arguably more important measurement — employment — looks even better. As of October, 66.2 percent of Vermonters were employed — the best rate in New England, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston New England Economic Snapshot.
And Vermont remains at the bottom in terms of foreclosure rates (RealtyTrac.com). The Kaiser Family Foundation ranks the state fourth highest in terms of health insurance coverage of its population.
U.S. Census figures give the state similarly good marks. Vermont is the eighth highest state in terms of the percentage of those over 25 who have high school, college and advanced degrees. In 2007, only one state did better in traffic fatalities per 100 miles travelled. We were in the middle of the pack in terms of median household income, but we ranked 37th in terms of the percentage of the population below the poverty level. We were 42nd for infant mortality and 49th for violent crime.
Let's assume that you are in the typical situation of a young Vermonter growing up here who wants to get ahead.
Figure your family income is about $40,000 (which is a LOT for Vermont). Historically, if someone belongs to the first generation in their family to get a bachelor's degree, they typically choose majors based on value in a job market as opposed to personal development.
If you want to study, what are your options?
Community Colleges are the least expensive, they also have the least prestige. They do have the charm that they are about the only option for late bloomers who can't present good SAT scores.
Here are recent cost comparisons for VT and NH:
VT
In-state students - $ 214 per credit
Out-of-state students - $ 428 per credit
NEHBE students - $321 per credit
Manchester NH CC
New Hampshire Resident $210.00 / credit
Out of State or International Student $478.00 / credit
New England Regional Student (CT, MA, ME, RI, VT) $315.00 / credit
Then we have the state colleges. Their offerings are targeted towards people looking for marketable skills. In many cases they accept credts and transfers from CCs, so this is a way to save money on higher education : rack up credits at your local CC, then transfer to a state college to get the degree.
Keene State College NH
NH Resident Tuition (full-time)** $10,410
Out-of-state $17,310
Then we have the state universities. Note that I have not included all fees, average cost of books etc so the totals here are not necessarily the sums of the items listed.
UVM
Vermont Resident Tuition $12,888
Out-of-State Resident Tuition $32,528
Average Room and Board $9,738 $9,738
Total $27,558 $47,524
UNH
Tuition and Fees In-state: $15,250 Out-of-state: $28,570
Room & Board* $9,452
Total In-state: $29,628 Out-of-state: $42,948
The big deterrent to attending one of these institutions for an in-stater despite the low tuition is the high cost of room and board. If you are a Vermonter and don't live in Burlington already, it could be the high cost of living in Burlington that stops you from attending as opposed to the tuition. You would think that being as spread out as the population is, UVM would have developed distance learning but no. We actually have the technical setups in many southern VT towns for interactive distance lectures but NOTHING is happening in that regard. If you want to see the UVM offerings, take a look at this: UVM Continuing Education : University of Vermont
Colleges like Middlebury may have high value, but only 6% of Middlebury students are Vermonters. This could be the price, the lack of attractive majors or also the likelihood that someone who grew up in the middle of white steeples, red barns and green mountains would rather experience the bright lights and big city and heads off to BU - if they are going to spend that kind of money.
So let's say that you now have your hypothetical degree, now what? Chances are if you try to stay in VT you end up like OP: frustrated, working two jobs and barely staying ahead of financial obligations. Good jobs are hard to come by and getting scarcer. If you can create your own job, great. This is what hubby and I did. But starting and growing a business is an uphill battle. First you get to fight the state. This is from 2002 but IMO still current. Why Generating Economic Growth is So Difficult
Note that following Hurricane Irene, the state itself ran up against its own permitting bureacracy when trying to rebuild. The silver lining is that some of our government officials actually figured out that if it is that hard to rebuild the infrastructure following a disaster of this magnitiude, that same red tape (which the state conveniently foudn magic scissors to cuit through for its own benefit) just might have been strangling economic growth all these years. http://www.vermont.org/Advocacy/poli...gfina10-11.pdf
Then we have the perception of Vermont as a crunchy-yuppie-socialist-borderline-communist haven - not exactly attractive to someone from out-of-state witha solid business plan looking for hard workers. We have a self-proclaimed Socialist in DC, we have a governor who wants to institute a single player health plan (with no idea how to pay for it oth er than to ask the Fed for money and put the cost burden on employers), we have out-of-staters who move up here and get media attention for being hippie relics VPR News: Peace Activists Plan Protest At Defense Contract Session
(note: a few years ago I attended one of these DoD matchmaking events on behalf of my small business. I got the Red Carpet treatment from the VT PTAC guy as mine was the only small enterprise from VT in attendance.)
And now we have the state toying with the idea of having a state-run bank. Nice, that sould make it easier for the industrious and burgeoning embezzlement segment of our government.
So what kinds of jobs are out there? I was not able to find a reliable breakdown but based on browsing this site (pick a city, then you can see the number of jobs in each category) Jobs - Vermont - StateWide
it looks like jobs in social services / mental health is the winner. Nursing and administrative jobs also seem to be more plentiful than others. Liberal aarts degrees won't get you very far. http://my.hsj.org/schools/newspaper/...urry_away.aspx
Having a job gets you out of the unemployment statistics and possibly above the poverty level - at least statistically speaking. Yes the unemployment rate is low; Vermonters are working hard but barely scraping by. What you don't see in those statistics is that while Vermonters may not be unemployed at a high rate, many are working long hours without having much of a life. The definition of poverty level does NOT take cost of living into account - it is the same nationwide. However, the COL is significantly higher in VT, as has been pointed out in this forum numerous times. http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s0728.pdf
So really, to get an idea of how many Vermonters are really living in poverty (say worried about paying for health care or heating bills or their kids education) we should have the income that defines poverty level multiplied by a factor proportional to the COL. If you're going to be paid a low salary, you should at least be somewhere where it is cheap to live, not the other way around.
And still we have out-of-staters with thick wallets wanting to move here and treat every square inch of land as if it were a state park. We have a governor who gives the cops a slap on the wrist for trying to arrest illegal aliens but won't step up when a journalist is arrested for covering a protest of a wind turbine project run by one of his buddies.
Really, is it any wonder that young, educated Vermonters like OP see few reasons to stay and many reasons to leave? Does anyone seriously think that working two jobs to barely get by is attractive? Sure those of us who grew up here appreciate the state's natural beauty and fresh air, but there is something to be said for being able to provide food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, and education for your family and a nest egg for your own retirement. Opportunities for that are few and far between for Vermonters and if anything things are getting worse and not better.
Last edited by FrugalYankee; 02-12-2012 at 08:55 AM..
What makes an area affluent (boomers importing huge next eggs and tranferable equity from inflated coastal markets) in the present, can undermine the options for people starting out.
I live in a town in Oregon (Ashland) that has literally been taken over by equity migrants from coastal California. It is a nice place, with stately homes,etc. But it is really hard for someone to start out here. The wages and high unemployment do not translate into $400k home prices for anyone who is trying to built net worth here. It remains a mecca for urban refugees, telecommuters, and retirees, who keep pumping up real estate prices, even as schools have closed and post college kids move away. And we also have a bumper crop of environmental groups staffed by Vermont kids who work for peanuts protecting us from industry and growth. Sound like Vermont is a state.
I am torn. I like places with a clean, rural environment and engaged, educated people. But I think the macroeconomic trends in highly desirable rural areas favor aging urban immigrants at the expense of locally raised kids. Just the way it is these days, and will likely not change for some time. The best thing Vermont has going for it is a harsh climate that chases away at least some of the urban locusts in a few years.
Even the liberal weekly, "Seven Days," wrote an article about two years ago confirming this is a problem after some other liberal newspapers tried to dispute Douglas' claims that the youth were fleeing VT.
As a middle-aged mom with three kids I don't see myself staying here forever b/c it won't be financially feasible unless I win the lottery. My kids are already planning to attend school out of state and I doubt they'll return here b/c of the lack of opportunity (why make $50,000 in VT when you can make $75,000 in another state with a similar cost of living?).
The jokesters in Montpelier just don't understand what the middle class are dealing with. They're completely focused on squeezing more money out of our tiny percentage of rich folk and giving as much money as possible to the poor rather than providing them with better paying jobs.
I hear the same story here in Long Island, NY; to which I keep asking myself where can you go? I am looking at NH and VT at the moment and see many of the same things I dislike here. Seems like it comes down to what you want from a location and what you need from that location.
"rather than providing them with better paying jobs."... Here is something I don't understand. People say this alot, but why is it the government or politician's job to "provide" jobs? That's why we have a free market society (sort of).
If we vote for (hire) politicians that make better business environment then jobs follow... younger folks find means of income, take up residence, raise families, provide income to others by supporting more business (shopping, housing, ect.).
"rather than providing them with better paying jobs."... Here is something I don't understand. People say this alot, but why is it the government or politician's job to "provide" jobs? That's why we have a free market society (sort of).
If we vote for (hire) politicians that make better business environment then jobs follow... younger folks find means of income, take up residence, raise families, provide income to others by supporting more business (shopping, housing, ect.).
No/little sources of income, and most will leave.
You hit the nail on the head. There are two issues at hand. Vermont has one of the lowest if not the lowest birth rate in the country (a good indicator on why the school population continues to decrease). With that in mind, we don't have the youth resource available to spur and/or supply growing or new business. The second issue is Vermont has cornered itself as a vacation destination (the biggest industry-tourism). There is large amounts of money that can be generated in this important industry, but the big issue is the jobs it creates. Low paying entry level positions.
There are good paying jobs in state, but as others pointed out, this is a rural state. If the were say one hundred high paying jobs available, there would most likely be hundreds more if not over a thousand low paying jobs at the same time. This is why competition is fierce for the higher paying jobs in state. Unfortunately, by just electing a politician who is pro business will have little impact. There are so many layers to the the political system that even resistance at one of those levels could be enough to stall an initiative. In Chittenden County as an example, we have seen this time after time. A company wants to move in. They get the green light from a city or town leader and then the slowdown starts. There are environmental impact studies, traffic pattern studies, people who don't like or approve of big box or corporations, etc, etc. Often times the hassle of development or the cost of development is not worth it. They pick up and move on to another state.
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