Question about zoning, government regulation, etc. for small-scale farming and homesteading (Burlington: mortgage, loan)
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I'm not exactly how to phrase this question, but hopefully people will get the gist of what I'm talking about. I've appreciated all your answers so far as I fumble through what I hope to be the final "big move" for my family.
My family of 6 currently lives in Virginia, but we're thinking of returning to the northeast/New England to be closer to extended family. I'm reading Joel Salatin's "Folks, This Ain't Normal" right now, and it's gotten me thinking about how easy (or hard) it might be to farm/homestead in different areas. We'd be interested in starting a small-scale farm on about ten acres (we'd love more land but probably can't afford it). Initially, the farm would just be for us, but it would be great to have the opportunity to sell some of our stuff once we get the hang of things. We'd also love someday to get some sort of farm to table thing going (it's my son's life-long ambition to be a chef).
So, my question is, how likely are we to be able to do these things easily in VT? Are there a lot of regulations regarding what you can do with regard to zoning (if you're zoned agriculture only are you forbidden from selling crafts, etc.)? If we want to eventually build another residence on our property, is that the sort of thing we could do? In the book, Salatin implies these things can be tough to do in his part of Virginia, and I'm getting the impression that things might also be tougher regulation-wise in NY? I know things might be different in different parts of VT, but--overall, with regard to government regulation, how easy do you find farming, homesteading, selling, LIVING, etc. in VT?
I can promise you the most difficult thing about farming or homesteading in VT will have nothing to do with rules and government regulations. What your describing sounds more like what I call homesteading then farming. Both are welcomed and accepted completely in Vermont. The hard part is going to be growing things in a very rugged environment. Should you produce more than you need in veges or goat cheese just sign up with your local farmers market and have at it. You are not going to be bothered. Different towns do have different regulations but I assume you are looking for the country life so you will not be trying to put a pig farm in downtown Burlington. You can take this info from a person who has been there and done it. I moved to Vermont with what I call the last " back to the land movement". The whole earth catalog, mother earth news and helen and scott nearings books fueled my early life’s imagination. I was idealistic, young energetic and poor. I managed to scrape up enough money for a down payment on 10 acres and the owner financed the balance. I then built a 15x30 ft cordwood cabin on the land and moved my wife and 2 young children in. We lived in that house for 5 years with a wood stove for heat, propane for lights, cooking and an outhouse, a spring where we fetched our water. No power, no running water. In the summer we could drive in, in the winter we walked pulling a sled full of groceries and children. In the meantime, we cleared the land, planted fruit trees, berries cleared a 1/4 garden. Had pigs, goats, chickens, rabbits and built the "real" house out of logs from our property. I am exhausted just thinking about it. For money I worked a full-time job until my wife started making money at the farmers market selling jewelry which allowed me to promptly quit my real job and become a crafter... I am getting to your question I am just listing my creds... Ok so let's talk about my experience with regulations. Well I was supposed to get a permit to build the original cabin but I never did. No one ever came out to ask about it. When I started building the "real house" I did get one. It was one piece of paper, sketch the boundaries and foot print, couple questions to answer, paid a fee, and that was it. Somewhere along the line I wanted to have running water which required a septic permit. The land came with a septic design but at the time the rules were if there was no actual plumbing in the house you didn't need a septic system. There are no permits to have a garden or homestead. It was years before anyone from the town even stopped by to look at the house. The only issue was the septic system. That is a state regulated thing. You need an approved plan and when you get it constructed you will need the health inspector there to approve and sign off on it. Other than an occasional burn permit I have never had anyone ever mention any kind of regulation. Just make sure you do not have restrictions in the deed, ask the town about the zoning regulations, lots of towns including mine at the time had none. A lot still have none. Zoning if they have it is often really about what goes on in the town center.
In terms of difficulty yes expect that to extreme. The season is short, the weather is brutal, the soil is largely horrible and not suited for what I call vege farming. For that you really need south facing river bottom land, good land in VT, and that is precious. My land is full of rocks, sand, gravel a layer of hardpan down about 18 inches. It is brutal, good for hay or sheep. The garden took years to develop and truck load after truckload of manure and compost. Apples and berries work well but take years to produce. We did it all and in the end, we did grow and preserve much of our family’s food but we rarely had so much we could sell extra. You will find a community of like-minded people here in VT, I am out of the loop now but while we were in it we met many who were like us, perhaps not as extreme but certainly very welcoming of what we were doing. You will find that also. People pool resources, loan you their wood splitter etc. Vt is a great place to homestead that way. In terms of ease though it must be one of the toughest. I now have a little winter house on the florida-georgia border and I of course brought my lifestyle with me. You would not believe how easy it is down there. Actually, a perfect zone for gardening, no rocks, no snow. I think homesteading in GA would be about 200% easier than VT and cheaper. The issue for me is the social and political climate of the south, but that is another subject altogether.
Thank you so much for your response! The main reason we'd be moving to VT would be to be closer to our extended family in upstate NY (Albany area). I don't like the cold weather and would probably rather stay in VA, but my parents are getting older and this might be the kids' "last chance" to really spend some time close(ish) to them. We could also give this a go in NY, but there are some aspects of life we think we might enjoy more in VT. Really, I keep going back and forth. I love the climate of Virginia, but the culture...not so much. Thanks again for your detailed reply!
In terms of difficulty yes expect that to extreme. The season is short, the weather is brutal, the soil is largely horrible and not suited for what I call vege farming. For that you really need south facing river bottom land, good land in VT, and that is precious.
Can I ask a stupid question? What is "south facing...land"? I'm reading Ben Hewitt's The Nourishing Homestead and he mentioned his land faces "southwest." How does land face one way or another?
Most land in VT is not going to be flat. I live on a relatively flat piece but it slopes North East. This was a rookie mistake made by a kid from the city. Never buy north sloping land in VT. If you stand on your property you want to ultimately have it slope to the south, or be open to the south for a good distance. Things like large pine trees on your neighbors line might be an issue. In the winter because we are far north the sun is at a very low angle. On my property around the solstice the sun will not even crest over the trees at noon. You only get diffused sunlight. This is a serious issue you should pay very close attention too. Trust me on this one.
Most land in VT is not going to be flat. I live on a relatively flat piece but it slopes North East. This was a rookie mistake made by a kid from the city. Never buy north sloping land in VT. If you stand on your property you want to ultimately have it slope to the south, or be open to the south for a good distance. Things like large pine trees on your neighbors line might be an issue. In the winter because we are far north the sun is at a very low angle. On my property around the solstice the sun will not even crest over the trees at noon. You only get diffused sunlight. This is a serious issue you should pay very close attention too. Trust me on this one.
I never made any money off our homesteading. If you mean that I was growing or producing products from the land. That I believe is very, very difficult to do. I know people doing it, but these people have not started from scratch. For instance, I know a guy that does organic meat. He is making a living at it. However, he was essentially given a farm debt free by his in laws. There is a lot of that going on. People with trust funds. People living on their parents 2nd home property. That was not us, and I do not see how a person without a pile of cash is going to make a go of it. There is simply a great deal of capital you need to get anything off the ground.
At the farmers market near us you could also sell crafts. My wife started putting together some jewelry and selling there. I think the first day she went she made $300 on a Saturday and I thought wow maybe there is an angle here. We then tried some flea markets, fairs and craft shows. It was a mixed bag but I think after about 1 year I thought we might make a go of it if I joined in. I don't have the time to tell you about all the years and permutations. All the festivals I have done, all the places I have traveled. It is a long-twisted story. We tried many other things in addition to jewelry. I made foot stools, I sold tie dye, I sold pet items, I made soap and sold to country stores, I sold antiques, Birdhouses, gel candles, paperweights etc. In the end jewelry has always been the winner and the way we made our living. Eventually the business sort of took me away from notion of pure homesteading. I am no longer homesteading. I still have my place in VT. I still grow a big garden, but the animals are gone. We are mostly vegetarians now. I go to Florida in the winter. I no longer "can" a years' worth of food or cut 10 cord of wood for the winter. Such is life.
Thinking your children will follow your dream is folly, but you never know. My children are in there mid 30's I am a grandfather now. Our children grew up largely homeschooled not for religious reasons but simply because our business and lifestyle took us on the road a lot. They were missing a lot of school and the school system was not happy so we pulled them. They have some opinions on things that have made me a bit sad. Both said they never want to run their own business. They said they watched us and felt it was simply too much work. The second was that they never want to build their own home. Same reasons apply. My youngest son said he was happy to have a mortgage and be done with it. In terms of where they ended up in life, it is all good. My oldest lives in DC works for the government. Married making more money than I could dream of. Has no interest in country living.
My youngest lives right next to me. I gave him 5 acres and he "had his house built" he has a daughter and they now plant the spring garden, so I guess the circle is unbroken.
Thank you for the response! I think it's great you could make your living that way--I would love that. Nice also that your one son chose to live next door to you (and continue your garden!) and that you gave the other the wings to live the way that was right for him. To me, this is a true "success story." Good for you!
Also, though, with regard to my original question, when you gave your son the five acres to build his house on, did you run into any issues as far as regulations? I've heard that's something people sometimes run into trouble with.
Can I ask a stupid question? What is "south facing...land"? <>
Not stupid at all. One of the better brands of ski clothing is "North Face." That is the colder side of the mountain and the best place for a ski area. Not so good for farming, obviously. In fact one of the challenges of Vermont is going to be finding land with enough sun exposure to be worth farming anyway. Vermont is very hilly and probably most of the best spots have been taken already.
There will be a lot of snow on the North facing slopes until late Spring, which delays planting, too.
Speaking of Spring, did anyone mention the mud?
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