[robertin75]

Hello:

I’m a 44 years old single Latino male (no kids and never married) currently looking for the possibility of relocating to Vermont from Michigan due to a potential job offer (Engineering).

Are there any people who moved to Vermont from Michigan? If not any advise from the someone else would be greatly appreciated as well.

I’m looking to rent an apartment in Burlington. Job would be in Shelburne.

Questions:

- How’s the quality of life. Should I expect a culture shock should I decide to relocate?
- Cost of Living compared to Michigan.
- Weather. I know that Vermont is cold as well and that probably gets more snow than Michigan. This winter was pretty mild (thanks Global Warming) though.
- How’s the dating life for people my age.
- I love the mountains. Are there any kind of trees whose leaves don’t fall in the winter? Here in Michigan every winter (around 5 months) there are basically no green areas unless you travel far up north.
- Is mud season really bad?
- I’ve read that Internet service as well as cell phone signal reception is pretty bad. How bad it is?
- I’ve also read taxes are pretty high compared to other states.
- Is it difficult for foreigners to fit into / make friends in Vermont?
- Good airports?
- Fitness clubs, gyms, racquetball clubs.
- Accessibility to hospitals, availability of physicians.

These are my current expenses in Michigan:

- Rent = $960 for one bedroom apartment 960sqf. Water included.
- Monthly utilities: $20-$30 for gas (about $80 in the winter), $30 for electricity (about $60 in winter), $70 for high speed internet (200MB speed and very reliable).
- $83 cellular phone with Verizon.
- $145 monthly for car insurance.
- Around $250-$300 for groceries each month. Sometimes I have lunch at work but for the most part I cook my own meals.
- $30 monthly for gym membership. I’m into healthy lifestyle and like to workout 5 times a week and eat healthy.

Thanks for any advise and any questions feel free to ask.

[jackmccullough]

Conditions are different now, although maybe not that different. My wife and I moved to Vermont from Grand Rapids in 1983 and you're right, it was a big change. Particularly in the rural areas and smaller towns, essentially everywhere outside of the Burlington area, life is very different from what you have in an urban part of Michigan.

Your plan, though, is to move to the largest population center in the state. Chittenden County, where Burlington is located, contains about a quarter of the population of the whole state. There's greater population density, more cultural attractions, a more diverse population, and most of the things you're looking for. You say you would be working in Shelburne and living in Burlington but you might also consider looking for rentals in Shelburne and South Burlington and surrounding towns.

Burlington International Airport is a smallish airport, probably smaller than Grand Rapids, but you can fly from there to anywhere. It tends to be more expensive to fly from Burlington than from other airports a few hours away, so travel planning is important. The University of Vermont Medical Center is a large academic hospital, so no problem with finding doctors.

There are certainly fitness clubs and plenty of access to outdoor recreation, including cycling, hiking, skiing, snowshoeing, and plenty of aquatic exercises--swimming, kayaking, and the like.

I think that your ability to make friends will depend more on you and your personality than anything else. You'll start out by knowing the people you work with and can branch out from there to the people at your gym, maybe the people who do the same kind of political work that you do or who volunteer for the same kind of social causes you're interested. As a single person you're probably moving to the part of the state with the largest number of young adults so it's probably the best place to meet people.

You can expect at least some of your expenses to go up. It would be hard to find an apartment you would want to live in for under a thousand. I don't really know about the other expenses, especially in Chittenden County, but we found that our expenses, especially rent, went up when we moved here. One way that I think of it is that Vermont is kind of at the end of the supply chain for a lot of goods, like groceries, so that exerts upward pressure on prices.

I encourage you to read the local free newspaper, Seven Days, to get a sense of the cultural life here. It's based in Burlington so you'll see what's going on. sevendaysvt.com. It's also the best place for classified ads so you'll get a sense of the housing market.

Oh, and weather? Well, it's snowing today but it won't last long. When I moved here people talked to me as though coming from Michigan I didn't know what winter was. It does tend to be longer here, and unless you're up north we tend to see more really cold stretches, as in multiple days below zero. On the other hand, the lake moderates the climate in Burlington so it's definitely more temperate up there.

I hope this helps.

[robertin75]

Didn’t hear from the interviewer again so I think it’s game over.

Thanks a lot for your detailed information.

[jackmccullough]

I'm sorry to hear that, but it's also possible that hiring has taken a back seat during the pandemic.

If you're really eager to move here start reading our local free newspaper, which is the go-to place for job listings: sevendaysvt.com.

[robertin75]

I was wondering if you could help me with some questions that I have.

I’ve read a lot of people complain about the lack of cell phone service and more importantly internet service.

Are they really that bad?

I can’t imagine working in the Engineering field and not have a good reliable internet or phone service.

Thanks.

[tkln]

Yes.

My house has one bar of cell service and even that on a good day is not reliable indoors. There are many many areas of town where there is no cell service at all. You learn to live with it.

Internet is spotty - we have incredible internet service. Up the road by 1-2 miles, satellite only.

[EckyX]

In Chittenden county there's usually service, but outside of there it's patchy.

[jackmccullough]

I know a few people where broadband or cellular coverage isn't great at home, but coverage for the majority of the state is good.

[EckyX]

To answer a few more of your questions:

I'm a Florida transplant, my wife is from Michigan. We may move back to Michigan at some point, but the only reason we'd do so is to be closer to her side of the family.

-I think quality of life is what you make of it. The opportunities here are different. Some people are bored to tears, others love it. I personally enjoy the more relaxed pace, the uncrowded roads, good scenery, and the culture, which seems to have a lot less interest in keeping up with the Joneses.

-Cost of living will vary a lot based on where you are. Burlington and Shelburne are some of the more expensive places in the state, but there are plenty of places in Michigan more expensive still. I'd say that on average, you're likely to spend more on housing and heat here, and considerably less on car insurance. Wages tend to be higher here for low and moderate income earners.

-Weather - the Champlain Valley seems to have an extra week or two at both ends of winter, and some extra really harsh days in the middle, and summers tend to be a little milder. Cloud cover and rain are similar to the east side of Michigan, and there's a bit more sun than the west side. Up in the mountains winters can be much longer and harsher.

-Can't speak for dating at 44. I married a Michigan girl.

-My understanding of the trees is that the evergreens are mostly in older growth areas. Much of the state was deforested in the early 1900's, and fast-growing deciduous have been the first to return. Some areas have mostly evergreens, but most are mostly maples. It might be my imagination but I believe I see more evergreens in the more affluent areas.

-Mud season is more of an issue if you live on a dirt road, which many still do. It's not something I think about anymore though. Boots come off in the mudroom and for a few weeks things remain pretty soggy.

-Taxes are higher than average but not outrageous by my estimation. I feel I get my money's worth here.

-In Chittenden county, I expect your ability to make friends will be more based on you. In less populous areas, being any kind of outsider can make it difficult to break into social circles. But, I think that's true anywhere.

-I usually drive to Boston to fly when I have the time. Burlington's airport will get you anywhere, but it's more expensive than a major hub.

-Can't speak for clubs and fitness centers. Most of the people I know get most of their exercise from being outdoors. Hiking and camping here is phenomenal, and there's plenty of opportunity to kayak and swim.

~

I pay $13500ish for a 4 bedroom house on an acre and a half, around 30 minutes from Burlington. My internet is cheaper, other utilities are more but I also have a lot more house than you do. I pay $30 per month for cell service through Google Fi and find the coverage to be no worse than with AT&T or Verizon. My water comes from a well and tastes great. My car insurance is around $26 per month - I'm 30. My wife and I average $150-200 per month in groceries each, and we cook 98% of our meals.

~

I grew up on a suburban beach in Florida, with palm trees, strip malls and plenty of touristy stuff to do. My life in Vermont couldn't be any different. We don't really spend money out. We have hens, tap maple trees for syrup, and have a huge vegetable garden. For entrainment we often go to a waterfall and swim in the crystal clear mountain swimming holes, or hike and forage for the very abundant wild edibles. I still wear sandals 8 months out of the year, and I have far more financial stability and freedom than I would have had down south.

My wife and I travel a lot, but whenever I cross back into Vermont, it feels like my blood pressure drops a few tens of points. I'm sure it's not for everyone.