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Old 05-26-2020, 06:21 PM
 
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After reading this article that included multiple colleges in the state closing or potentially closing: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...-it-will-close

What is the cause of this occurring? Is it a decline in young people in the state? Are a lot of high school grads just look to go to UVM or schools like Norwich or Castleton, if they stay in state?
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Old 05-28-2020, 03:36 PM
 
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Student enrollment is falling across the country, but especially so in the northeast. Small colleges with small endowments are just not financially strong enough to weather falling enrollments. Additionally the price tags for private schools is such that more young people are turning to public colleges out of necessity. Without big endowments how much financial aid small private schools can offer is limited.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:33 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Sadly, my son's alma mater, the highly ranked Marlboro College, held it's last commencement exercise this year. We are distraught over this. Marlboro, a distinctive liberal arts college will be merging with Boston's Emerson College, which is known for its communications and broadcasting departments. My son and his friends are devastated. I share in their grief.

Marlboro is best known in academic circles, as a college that emphasizes something they call "Clear Writing". If by the end of the second year, students can not write at a skill level that is deemed "publishable", they are asked to leave.

Before graduation, each student must submit a thesis and defend that thesis to faculty and an independent, outside examiner, usually a Ph.D. level professor from one of the many prestigious colleges and universities that dot New England, and make it the special place that it is.

Marlboro is listed in many publications from "America's Best 378 Colleges and Universities" (I may have the exact number wrong) to "Colleges that Change Lives" to "Cool Colleges", and more. An unusually high percentage of its graduates go on to attain the highest degree in their fields.
In my son's case, that would be an MFA. Usually, the highest degree is the Ph.D.

Why did Marlboro and colleges like it, struggle? As a social observer, I have my theories.

1. A generation ago, a New England education was thought of as the finest. Just the mention of "New England" brought of images and ideas of fine academic offerings. There is much truth to that. The Nations's first and finest colleges are heavily clustered in the six New England states. There is not a college there that does not have the very best of what any student is seeking to study. From the Massachusetts Institute of Technology to the Rhode Island School of Design, one can find an institution of higher learning that can meet their interests, skills, passions, and aptitudes.

This makes the region very unique.

Today there is a trend to force every student to study a subject that will directly lead to a career. There is a general misunderstanding as to the purpose of college.
As an increasing number of students attend college, usually at the behest of well-intentioned, parents; first-generation college student is guided - or should I say misdirected, towards thinking of college as a career school, which it is not, and which it never was intended or wanted to be.

It a place to learn. For some people, if a college does not confer a career title and direct entrance into the job market, it's worthless.

Those people would do well to investigate vocational education.

2. Destination College Choices. When I attended college, the weather, or the name of the city or town where the college was located, was unimportant. I did most of my undergrad work in New England. I didn't care about snowy winters. In fact, I relished the idea of walking to class on glorious fall days, the trees colored in tones of gold and flame red. I wanted to wear sweaters and scarves in winter. I enjoyed study groups by a roaring fire, while snow fell gently from the sky. The winter kept us inside, but we WERE there to study and learn. Not to constantly party. We could also sled in the commons, ice skate, and ski. When summer did come, there was The Cape, and all that has to offer.

Prospective college students today seem drawn to warm climates. We visited FL for spring break.

3. Students today are afraid of writing. Many find mathematics and commuters easier. In a broad sense, they do not read as much. Hence, their writing suffers. They are afraid of colleges that stress clear writing and demand a written thesis prior to graduation.

4. In the case of Marlboro, I blame poor leadership and the general staid attitude and resistance to change of those in administration. Many of the parents, including myself, thought that Marlboro should diversify and join the legion on colleges that offer online degrees.

Look at Southern New Hampshire, never a well-regarded school, but by the number of commercials they have, SNHU, once another dying New England college, has restricted itself. This is upsetting to me. SNHU was never a very competitive college, but it's survival strategies certainly beat those of Marlboro. From what I know, they hired advisors who were not in academics, to help them to survive. They listened.

I cannot tell you how many students, graduates, and Marlboro parents told them to go ONLINE. They were stubborn and resistant towards it. There were MANY ONLINE MASTERS they could have offered without compromising their principles.

5. They obsessed over "Diversity". By "Diversity" I mean non-white students and students, not from New England or the NY metro area. Malboro was a niche college. It did have a few students of color, but one, small LAC, can not be everything to everyone. If Marlboro mainly served white students from the NY New England area, California, the west coast, the Midwest, and eastern South, so be it. Focus on who wants you. Not who does not.
Asian families tend to stress STEM subjects. AA families are just not that attracted to college in Vermont. Some are! Welcome them, but do not obsess over their absence.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:48 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,130 posts, read 32,525,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
Student enrollment is falling across the country, but especially so in the northeast. Small colleges with small endowments are just not financially strong enough to weather falling enrollments. Additionally the price tags for private schools is such that more young people are turning to public colleges out of necessity. Without big endowments how much financial aid small private schools can offer is limited.
Concisely speaking, what Biker53, said. It's a trend.

Also, the price tags. Marlboro was NOT inexpensive. They did offer my son enough financial incentive, not need-based, but merit-based, to help make that possible. My late father was in the position to fill in where and when it was needed.

I am blessed that he understood his literary, academic, and artistic grandson, a tattoo artist, and Broom Ball team member. My dad was more of a fraternity member jock. He would have and could have paid the whole thing. He was glad that his grandson understood that they were different people.

Sadly, his second wife interfered with his generosity.
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:23 PM
 
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Unless they’re highly selective so they act as Pre-professional schools, it’s really hard to justify the tuition of a small private liberal arts college. Somewhere highly selective like an Amherst is a good launching platform for medical school, law school, and top graduate programs. Most of the small New England liberal arts colleges weren’t at that level. Graduates were getting crushed with student loans with no high earning job to pay off the loan.
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:32 PM
 
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I’d add that UVM isn’t cheap. Unless you’re getting a scholarship, many Vermonters will get a better value in other New England state schools. There are a number of programs where Vermont residents qualify for in-state tuition at the flagship state school in other New England states. I’ve listened to that rant from a number of parents who used other schools.
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Old 05-30-2020, 05:39 AM
 
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And it wasn't just Marlboro. Near where I live Green Mountain College and College of St. Joseph have closed and down in Bennington, Southern Vermont College has closed. Green Mountain alumni tried very hard to save the school and College of St. Joseph hung on until it simply wasn't feasible to continue.
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:06 AM
 
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Alternative, less selective schools like Green Mtn, Marlboro, Burlington College (Goddard near Montpelier is likely next) just can't offer a competitive & financially reasonable experience/product.

Why spend upwards of $40k a year to earn a degree in "sustainable agriculture" when you could just apprentice on an organic farm & not be saddled with high debt/student loans? Many of these school's strongest courses appear to be creative/fine arts programs. But why attend school in VT to earn that degree when you'd get a much richer arts experience in a city with diverse galleries & exhibitions? Obviously each student is different & for some a small town, New England setting is ideal. However, in an increasingly globalized world, that number is shrinking.

Small, alternative schools also suffer from smaller endowments. Why pay high tuition rates at these private schools that don't give you access to robust alumni networks? In today's environment, college is less an experience for academic & intellectual growth & more of a focused exercise to prepare yourself for a career. Whether this is right/wrong or good/bad is a different conversation entirely. But from a practical standpoint; it's just not feasible to take on $100k in debt to earn a degree you can't apply directly to a job. Those with family money are insulated from this & have a wider palate of options to chose from. But for the majority of students these days, lower cost in-state tuition at public universities or high cost, selective private schools are the 2 fiscally viable options.

Last edited by flyfishr; 06-02-2020 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishr View Post
Why spend upwards of $40k a year to earn a degree in "sustainable agriculture" when you could just apprentice on an organic farm & not be saddled with high debt/student loans? Many of these school's strongest courses appear to be creative/fine arts programs. But why attend school in VT to earn that degree when you'd get a much richer arts experience in a city with diverse galleries & exhibitions? Obviously each student is different & for some a small town, New England setting is ideal. However, in an increasingly globalized world, that number is shrinking.
That was likely one of the main problems with Marlboro IMO, you could likely go to work for an organic farm and get paid while learning over going into student debt and delaying entering the workforce or starting your own business for an additional four years. Many of the programs and degrees could be measured this way.

You DO miss out on the student/campus/dorm living/etc. experience which counts for alot, and the right professor(s) can change your life.

I considered Marlboro when looking at colleges along with Franconia College and Bard in NY as alternatives to a more mainstream institution. Franconia was just too unstructured and seemed even back then to be on shaky financial ground, Bard wound up being too pricey, but I really liked Marlboro and the campus when I visited. I often wonder how my life would be different today if I had attended, although not displeased with my more mainstream choices.

Sheena, I hear you on the weather thing. I chose New England for school because I simply cannot think in the heat and humidity. I cannot imagine going to school in Florida, and I really enjoyed the aura, spirit and artistry of winter.

Also the diversity thing, so many schools are pressured or feel a need to do this, but if it fragments the core population that may otherwise attend the school, and/or the population(s) they seek to attract have no interest in attending or are there simply due to an opening/opportunity with no further motivation, what good does it serve.

Some of these schools were struggling even back when I attended. I think Windham College (not far from Marlboro nor a school with the best academic reputation) closed in the middle of the year, leaving students, many of them foreign, stranded during a Vermont winter with padlocked dorms the same year I started my freshman year at a College in New Hampshire.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
197 posts, read 229,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
2. Destination College Choices. When I attended college, the weather, or the name of the city or town where the college was located, was unimportant. I did most of my undergrad work in New England. I didn't care about snowy winters. In fact, I relished the idea of walking to class on glorious fall days, the trees colored in tones of gold and flame red. I wanted to wear sweaters and scarves in winter. I enjoyed study groups by a roaring fire, while snow fell gently from the sky. The winter kept us inside, but we WERE there to study and learn. Not to constantly party. We could also sled in the commons, ice skate, and ski. When summer did come, there was The Cape, and all that has to offer.

Prospective college students today seem drawn to warm climates. We visited FL for spring break.
I just noticed this statement here. I attended Texas Christian University (TCU) in Fort Worth, TX, and while our winters are by no means always warm (in fact it does occasionally snow here), we do get more than our fair share of warm days during the winter months. Some of my fondest college memories involve sitting on the campus lawn on a warm (70F+) day in January or February; on these days, you had a lot of students sitting and studying outdoors. Trust me, a lot of students (myself included) like to be outdoors and study outdoors, and you can't really do that in a New England winter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
Today there is a trend to force every student to study a subject that will directly lead to a career. There is a general misunderstanding as to the purpose of college. As an increasing number of students attend college, usually at the behest of well-intentioned, parents; first-generation college student is guided - or should I say misdirected, towards thinking of college as a career school, which it is not, and which it never was intended or wanted to be.

It a place to learn. For some people, if a college does not confer a career title and direct entrance into the job market, it's worthless.
Credentialism has ruined education for learning's sake. This is very sad for our higher education system, as we need more people who can think deeply and intelligently - especially in these intellectually-challenged times - and who pursue learning out of their own (intrinsically-motivated) interest. If the sole purpose of higher education is for an extrinsic reward (a job and a career), then we are losing something very valuable about education. The pursuit of credentialism just shows how devalued intellectualism has become in contemporary American society.

Not to mention that credentialism also permitted the spread of unscrupulous, predatory for-profit colleges. Those who believe that they need a degree to further their career, and who are unaware that some (for-profit) colleges prey upon the meek, may very well wind up at one of these predatory institutions. That said, white-collar employers generally look down upon degrees from for-profit colleges.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
3. Students today are afraid of writing. Many find mathematics and commuters easier. In a broad sense, they do not read as much. Hence, their writing suffers. They are afraid of colleges that stress clear writing and demand a written thesis prior to graduation.
I assume you meant to say "computers" instead of "commuters" there. Nevertheless, I do agree that the quality of writing from American students has dropped in recent decades. High schools need to do a better job at teaching writing; too many students are simply unprepared for the level of writing they will be expected to complete in college. I also agree that "clear writing" is very important, especially considering that English has become the lingua franca of academia and global communication. There are many non-native English speakers out there who will need to read articles in English.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
4. In the case of Marlboro, I blame poor leadership and the general staid attitude and resistance to change of those in administration. Many of the parents, including myself, thought that Marlboro should diversify and join the legion on colleges that offer online degrees.

Look at Southern New Hampshire, never a well-regarded school, but by the number of commercials they have, SNHU, once another dying New England college, has restricted itself. This is upsetting to me. SNHU was never a very competitive college, but it's survival strategies certainly beat those of Marlboro. From what I know, they hired advisors who were not in academics, to help them to survive. They listened.

I cannot tell you how many students, graduates, and Marlboro parents told them to go ONLINE. They were stubborn and resistant towards it. There were MANY ONLINE MASTERS they could have offered without compromising their principles.
One of Marlboro College's former presidents, Paul LeBlanc, has served as Southern New Hampshire University's president since 2003. In fact, LeBlanc served as Marlboro's president between 1996 and 2003, just before he took over the reigns at SHNU. This is the man who led the transformation of SHNU into the massive (majority) online institution it is today.
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