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You're right. That's because the views of many if not most conservatives (esp nowadays) are anti-science, anti-medicine (as Trump and conservatives have been re masks, social distancing, testing and all things related to COVID-19), mean-spirited, selfish, gluttonous, bigoted, mysogonistic, unsypathetic, anti-environment, etc, etc... What logical person would or should be tolerant of such nonsense?
I think what you say here is totally untrue. It sounds like your views are shaped by your echo chamber that you likely live in, getting all your information that forms your views of the world from the propaganda from big corporate media of CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WAPO, Academia, big tech, hollywood that endlessly demonize conservatives and perpetuate silly stereotypes and caricatures like "anti science", "mean spirited", etc... Total nonsense propaganda.
I know a number of conservatives that are Ivy League PHD's and many really smart successful entrepreneurs. Being a "conservative" generally to me means you are in favor of taking personal responsibility for your situation in life and not blaming it on others, lower taxes (I can decide how to spend my money better than a big inefficient gov't bureaucracy), smaller gov't, belief the private sector can accomplish things more efficiently & effectively than gov't, freedom oriented, property rights, strong borders, smart skills based immigration policies, smart regulation, civil liberties, defense of free speech, less welfare, right to work, sound money, etc... There are plenty of moderate conservatives that are socially liberal in many areas like pro choice, in favor of gay rights, etc.. And many in favor of smart land use & conservation, etc. And there are many libertarian oriented conservatives that are anti war, anti military industrial complex, and anti "nation building". And believe that money better spent at home.
The problem with a lot of liberals is they come out of ivory tower academia, career gov't jobs, etc... They have never run businesses or even worked much in the private sector. They don't understand that the private sector and entrepreneurs CREATE the tax base they live off. They gain their wealth from taxing the private sector (i.e Bernie's personal wealth all came AFTER he went into politics...same with Clintons, Obama, Biden, etc...), so of course they are in favor of MORE of that. Bernie, Pelosi, Warren, Harris, Biden, Clintons, Obama....really are all career politicians/career govt work, or mostly. Of course they want bigger and bigger gov't, that is where they gain their wealth and power, through gov't.
Many conservatives just don't think massive government bureaucracies, more and more taxes, more and more needless byzantine regulations, social engineering, people running the country and making decisions about it having spent their whole lives in the bubble of gov't, etc... is the path to prosperity for the nation. I would personally choose my freedom, lots of choices, low taxes, small gov't.... over a socialist big gov't country that "takes care" of everything for me cradle to the grave.
And VT is unfortunately not attracting enough (if any) libertarians and freedom oriented people IMO. They are turned off by its national image as a socialist stronghold. And a state where 90% of the population is on the far left of the political spectrum worries me. Not enough balance. Balance is good. Some liberals are good. I'm not sure about a place that is ALL liberals though
[quote=ctr88;59034753]I think what you say here is totally untrue. It sounds like your views are shaped by your echo chamber that you likely live in, getting all your information that forms your views of the world from the propaganda from big corporate media of CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WAPO, Academia, big tech, hollywood that endlessly demonize conservatives and perpetuate silly stereotypes and caricatures like "anti science", "mean spirited", etc... Total nonsense propaganda.
I know a number of conservatives that are Ivy League PHD's and many really smart successful entrepreneurs. Being a "conservative" generally to me means you are in favor of taking personal responsibility for your situation in life and not blaming it on others, lower taxes (I can decide how to spend my money better than a big inefficient gov't bureaucracy), smaller gov't, belief the private sector can accomplish things more efficiently & effectively than gov't, freedom oriented, property rights, strong borders, smart skills based immigration policies, smart regulation, civil liberties, defense of free speech, less welfare, right to work, sound money, etc... There are plenty of moderate conservatives that are socially liberal in many areas like pro choice, in favor of gay rights, etc.. And many in favor of smart land use & conservation, etc. And there are many libertarian oriented conservatives that are anti war, anti military industrial complex, and anti "nation building". And believe that money better spent at home.
The problem with a lot of liberals is they come out of ivory tower academia, career gov't jobs, etc... They have never run businesses or even worked much in the private sector. They don't understand that the private sector and entrepreneurs CREATE the tax base they live off. They gain their wealth from taxing the private sector (i.e Bernie's personal wealth all came AFTER he went into politics...same with Clintons, Obama, Biden, etc...), so of course they are in favor of MORE of that. Bernie, Pelosi, Warren, Harris, Biden, Clintons, Obama....really are all career politicians/career govt work, or mostly. Of course they want bigger and bigger gov't, that is where they gain their wealth and power, through gov't.
Many conservatives just don't think massive government bureaucracies, more and more taxes, more and more needless byzantine regulations, social engineering, people running the country and making decisions about it having spent their whole lives in the bubble of gov't, etc... is the path to prosperity for the nation. I would personally choose my freedom, lots of choices, low taxes, small gov't.... over a socialist big gov't country that "takes care" of everything for me cradle to the grave.
And VT is unfortunately not attracting enough (if any) libertarians and freedom oriented people IMO. They are turned off by its national image as a socialist stronghold. And a state where 90% of the population is on the far left of the political spectrum worries me. Not enough balance. Balance is good. Some liberals are good. I'm not sure about a place that is ALL liberals though[/QUOTE/]
Wow. I agree with 100% of what you say here. Thanks for articulating these thoughts so gracefully.
Last edited by Riley.; 08-30-2020 at 08:31 AM..
Reason: spelling
I think what you say here is totally untrue. It sounds like your views are shaped by your echo chamber that you likely live in, getting all your information that forms your views of the world from the propaganda from big corporate media of CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WAPO, Academia, big tech, hollywood that endlessly demonize conservatives and perpetuate silly stereotypes and caricatures like "anti science", "mean spirited", etc... Total nonsense propaganda.
I know a number of conservatives that are Ivy League PHD's and many really smart successful entrepreneurs. Being a "conservative" generally to me means you are in favor of taking personal responsibility for your situation in life and not blaming it on others, lower taxes (I can decide how to spend my money better than a big inefficient gov't bureaucracy), smaller gov't, belief the private sector can accomplish things more efficiently & effectively than gov't, freedom oriented, property rights, strong borders, smart skills based immigration policies, smart regulation, civil liberties, defense of free speech, less welfare, right to work, sound money, etc... There are plenty of moderate conservatives that are socially liberal in many areas like pro choice, in favor of gay rights, etc.. And many in favor of smart land use & conservation, etc. And there are many libertarian oriented conservatives that are anti war, anti military industrial complex, and anti "nation building". And believe that money better spent at home.
The problem with a lot of liberals is they come out of ivory tower academia, career gov't jobs, etc... They have never run businesses or even worked much in the private sector. They don't understand that the private sector and entrepreneurs CREATE the tax base they live off. They gain their wealth from taxing the private sector (i.e Bernie's personal wealth all came AFTER he went into politics...same with Clintons, Obama, Biden, etc...), so of course they are in favor of MORE of that. Bernie, Pelosi, Warren, Harris, Biden, Clintons, Obama....really are all career politicians/career govt work, or mostly. Of course they want bigger and bigger gov't, that is where they gain their wealth and power, through gov't.
Many conservatives just don't think massive government bureaucracies, more and more taxes, more and more needless byzantine regulations, social engineering, people running the country and making decisions about it having spent their whole lives in the bubble of gov't, etc... is the path to prosperity for the nation. I would personally choose my freedom, lots of choices, low taxes, small gov't.... over a socialist big gov't country that "takes care" of everything for me cradle to the grave.
And VT is unfortunately not attracting enough (if any) libertarians and freedom oriented people IMO. They are turned off by its national image as a socialist stronghold. And a state where 90% of the population is on the far left of the political spectrum worries me. Not enough balance. Balance is good. Some liberals are good. I'm not sure about a place that is ALL liberals though
I'm not against conservatives: those who have a different POV from me, like smaller government, more private sector control of some govt functions, etc. Debate is healthy, esp in an open system like the United States is supposed to be. I am against fascist totalitarianism supporting things like: fanning white supremacy and bigotry (which fires up terrorist mass-murderers world-wide-- there is NO ARGUMENT that shooters in Christchurch, New Zealand, the Tree of Life Synagogue shooter and wacko, teen killer Kyle Rittenhouse from last week's Kenosha murders were all rabid Trump supporters who were fired up by his rhetoric), suppressing the vote of minorities, students and others who will opposed the 'Republian', inviting foreign enemies like Russia/Putin to interfere with our election, remaining silent when Putin has paid a bounty to the Taliban to kill US soldiers, a total disregard for the law (ie: using the White House for electoral purposes, as Trump did last week at the RNC), emoluments clause (ie using our Ambassador to England to try and move the British Open to a Trump-owned golf course in Scotland),... and I'm just scratching the surface.
... The problem is with pro-Trump zealots, which you refuse to acknowledge, is that the current Trump-party is no longer the regular, opposition, conservative Republican Party of old. What we have, today, is far more dangerous. And anybody who refuses to acknowledge this, frankly, is not just a person living in LA-LA land, psychologically, but a very dangerous American in my book.
Why is so hard for guys like you to acknowledge the undisputed fact that boatloads of traditional Republican conservatives have fled the Party because of Trump-style fascism -- ie George Will, Bill Kristol, Steve Schmitd, David Frum and even The Mooch (and conservatives like Anthony Scaramucci and Elizabeth Neumann are younger anti-Trumpers, unlike the aforementioned) have all suddenly left the Party and are backing Biden-Harris... and no, this is not opinion from MSNBC, CNN or whatever media boogeyman you can cite, it is fact ... something Trump zealots have a hard time dealing with.
Really? I'm the one filled with hate? Why don't we ask all the 'traditional conservatives' like George Will, Bill Kristol, David Frum, Steve Schmidt, David Jolly, John Kasich, Collin Powell, etc, etc, etc... why THEY decided to leave the party and endorse Democrat Joe Biden... Sorry your RINO crap won’t fly anymore… Not when you’re talking about rock-solid Regan Republicans like Will and Kristol.
Answer: because folks like you who are Trump sycophants and apologists are suborning lawlessness, hatred, bigotry and anti-intellectualism to the point that the party is a Trump-ite cult and not a real political party anymore. Live in your own fantasy world all you want, but don’t try and transform it into reality, because it ain’t so.
Actually, here was a better answer from a liberal--one who's capable of self reflection--as to why so many people still voted for Trump in 2020:
I'm not against conservatives: those who have a different POV from me, like smaller government, more private sector control of some govt functions, etc. Debate is healthy, esp in an open system like the United States is supposed to be. I am against fascist totalitarianism supporting things like: fanning white supremacy and bigotry (which fires up terrorist mass-murderers world-wide-- there is NO ARGUMENT that shooters in Christchurch, New Zealand, the Tree of Life Synagogue shooter and wacko, teen killer Kyle Rittenhouse from last week's Kenosha murders were all rabid Trump supporters who were fired up by his rhetoric), suppressing the vote of minorities, students and others who will opposed the 'Republian', inviting foreign enemies like Russia/Putin to interfere with our election, remaining silent when Putin has paid a bounty to the Taliban to kill US soldiers, a total disregard for the law (ie: using the White House for electoral purposes, as Trump did last week at the RNC), emoluments clause (ie using our Ambassador to England to try and move the British Open to a Trump-owned golf course in Scotland),... and I'm just scratching the surface.
... The problem is with pro-Trump zealots, which you refuse to acknowledge, is that the current Trump-party is no longer the regular, opposition, conservative Republican Party of old. What we have, today, is far more dangerous. And anybody who refuses to acknowledge this, frankly, is not just a person living in LA-LA land, psychologically, but a very dangerous American in my book.
Why is so hard for guys like you to acknowledge the undisputed fact that boatloads of traditional Republican conservatives have fled the Party because of Trump-style fascism -- ie George Will, Bill Kristol, Steve Schmitd, David Frum and even The Mooch (and conservatives like Anthony Scaramucci and Elizabeth Neumann are younger anti-Trumpers, unlike the aforementioned) have all suddenly left the Party and are backing Biden-Harris... and no, this is not opinion from MSNBC, CNN or whatever media boogeyman you can cite, it is fact ... something Trump zealots have a hard time dealing with.
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