[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

What sort of sub parr builders have you been around? Anyone can call themselves a builder and it sounds like that's who you've worked for. Too many people watch Bob Vila, HGTV, take out a book from the library and get themselves in way too deep. We have to clean up an awful lot of that nonsense. Face it -- people like the cheap price, a smooth sales pitch and fall into a mess.

Actually they were one of the larger builders in the area. I think it's more because of their low bids than quality though. I won't name them, for obvious legal reasons. I wasn't particularly proud to be working for them but I needed the money badly...

We have seen far too many POS houses built in VT and too many fine, older homes completely screwed up by well-meaning, homeowners who haven't got a clue what they're doing, or who've cut corners because 'they know better'.

Yes, true.

Who cares if it is difficult -- so long as it is being performed by a competent, skilled individual? If you have a good working relationship with the building inspector, as well as a good architect, the old ways can be instituted into a build. My clients are willing to pay for this. One problem I have noticed in VT is that the local people (those who don't have the money) will cut corners wherever they can, compromising their structure.

Well, here is where we differ somewhat: I'm more of the mindset to build my own home and stay debt-free than to hire an architect, a builder, etc. And my libertarian leanings contribute to my hatred of inspections by government officials. I know not everyone should build their own home, but there are those of us who are capable of it and the government shouldn't stop us. I do think a requirement for a disclaimer in bold print when an owner-built house that was not inspected, built to code, etc., is sold, would be a very reasonable compromise.

I am familiar with corner-cutting in VT. New England Yankee frugality is still alive in VT. Sometimes that's good, sometimes it's bad, obviously...

My personal preference is for older homes because of the details that went into the build and the quality of older materials.

Same here. I think it can be done again but most people want cheaply built large homes rather than well built smaller homes.

However modern kitchens with granite counters, tile floors, commercial appliances, add weight to a floor -- you can't be putting this stuff on 2' OC joists. Also spa tubs, marble showers, etc, on the second floor of these structures also need more reinforcement. We have 300 year old houses here on stone foundations which are solid -- those that have been unmolested, that is. But you and I both know over the years this one and that have had their hands in the pie and what remains can (and usually is) unstable. We've had chuckleheads put way too much weight upon improperly supported floors. I'm sure you've seen this.

Well, I'll tell you something: my family's colonial-era farmhouse had a large piano in the front room from before the Civil War until the house was sold, about 130 years later, on a floor with 2 and a half foot OC floor beams (large timbers admittedly and the floorboards were somewhere around 2 inches thick). That piano is in my parents' apartment now, I think I'll put its weight up against any granite counter, having helped move it more than once.

Anyone adding something heavy to a room should look at the structure and if it'll support it.

The old growth wood is phenomenal compared to what one can pick up at the lumber yard. We try and use reclaimed whenever possible -- again, I have clients who can afford it. As for the old cut nails, that's one of our hallmarks when working on an old home restoration.

Modern lumber will never match it I suspect, except when older trees are used which is very rare now. I know someone who's going to have to tear a barn down that's too far gone to save. I'll be helping, my only price was the salvageable lumber (which would otherwise have been carted off...). I think I'm getting a good deal, I'll be using it for my own home eventually.

I practically have a collection of antique square nails going...I've even found a handful of early hand forged nails...

I've done a bit of blacksmithing for myself and have learned to make nails. Kind of time consuming but I've made up almost 1,000 nails at this point that will be used eventually. I'll be using square nails (my hand forged nails where they show, purchased cut nails otherwise) almost exclusively when I build...although dovetail notched logs don't need nails, which leaves the nails for the floorboards, roof, etc.

Do you not feel that there should be some uniformity where electrical is concerned? I believe we've come along way since the days of people sticking pennies in the fuse box, overloading outlets, etc.

Overloading outlets? Those days are still here I'm afraid. My oldest brother (a few years older than myself) still doesn't understand you shouldn't have 12 or more items plugged into a single outlet, and cords going all over the place under furniture and rugs and such...

But anyways, to some degree I agree. But with modern electrical wiring and supplies it's hard to make a mistake that's too dangerous, not like the knob and tube wiring days where it was very easy to cross the wires, etc.. Not that there aren't people capable of making a simple job of wiring some outlets into a death trap.

If you were to buy a home someone else built, based on their knowledge or lack thereof, and subsequently had a fire...what would you do when the insurance company refuses to pay out, because the structure was not properly constructed or improved upon?

I wouldn't have insurance...

But I would have any place I bought very carefully inspected anyways. Probably mostly by myself and another person I know. You have to assume anything was not done right until proven otherwise when buying, be it new or old construction.

I appreciate your government hands-off approach, I am not a fan of government control, either. But I do feel that there has to be some degree of uniformity to building methods to prevent potential dangerous situations. Look at the NYC firefighters who died in an apartment which was cut into smaller rooms -- against code. Look at the people who die in illegal apartments, trapped because windows don't meet egress, access is blocked, or suffocated by improperly vented furnaces.

While regulation may be more arguably necessary in a place as dense as NYC it's not so necessary in rural Vermont...apartments can be treated differently than owner built and occupied single-family homes.