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Probably the #1 example in the nation at that. Although the Arena (for now) will still be in use per Leonsis. Not that it will be there forever since WNBA, Georgetown basketball, and concerts cannot offset the loss of 82 NHL/NBA home games combine per year. But DC eventually will need to just redevelop the entire site with another City Center DC like development. For now though, Leonsis states they want to build the new facility and he owns Capital One Arena, so both will be in use.
Yeah crime is not even in the top 3 of reasons why Leonsis is making this move. He's able to build a new stadium and entertainment complex from scratch for one. Not to mention that if they stayed DC who is luring the Commanders back to RFK long term wasn't going to be able to come up with enough funds to have all four major sports teams in the city proper plus MLS and WNBA. The Nationals are already asking for upgrades to Nats Park which is like 15 years old. Leonsis can now work with a state government, that can provide way much more through their General Assembly and Gov that is eager for a political win, instead of trying to peel dinero from the D.C. City Council every so often. D.C> is the only city in America that doesn't have backing of a state legislation for their entertainment venues.
I have generally been a supporter of Bowser as reasonably pragmatic compared to the ideological council. But chasing the NFL was a catastrophically stupid idea. The net effect is likely to be no NFL team and the loss of 2 pro sports teams and a decaying underutilized arena. She (and most of the Council) clearly needs to go at this point.
As to redeveloping the area? Mystics and Georgetown don't draw the crowds to upkeep the arena. Concerts maybe, but they can just go to the nicer newer arena as well.
DC already has too much underutilized office space that needs to be knocked down and redeveloped. With the height limit you can only put so much housing there anyways. We already have a ton of food halls. Urban retail is struggling nationally and in DC in particular, so it seems unlikely anyone would want to build a mall development there. Other than a big shopping destination, it's hard to imagine anything being able to generate the concentrated activity that an arena would.
If this happens, realistically we are looking at Gallery Place just going to hell for the foreseeable future.
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Originally Posted by jpdivola
I have generally been a supporter of Bowser as reasonably pragmatic compared to the ideological council. But chasing the NFL was a catastrophically stupid idea. The net effect is likely to be no NFL team and the loss of 2 pro sports teams and a decaying underutilized arena. She (and most of the Council) clearly needs to go at this point.
As to redeveloping the area? Mystics and Georgetown don't draw the crowds to upkeep the arena. Concerts maybe, but they can just go to the nicer newer arena as well.
DC already has too much underutilized office space that needs to be knocked down and redeveloped. With the height limit you can only put so much housing there anyways. We already have a ton of food halls. Urban retail is struggling nationally and in DC in particular, so it seems unlikely anyone would want to build a mall development there. Other than a big shopping destination, it's hard to imagine anything being able to generate the concentrated activity that an arena would.
If this happens, realistically we are looking at Gallery Place just going to hell for the foreseeable future.
Chasing the NFL is not a "stupid" move. That's asinine. If the end all be all is that DC gains a new RFK site domed stadium for year round use with a mixed use development surrounding it, while losing the Caps/Wiz and retaining all the other sports teams that are in the city proper. That's not a huge long term problem at all, and with proper redevelopment of Capital One Arena/Chinatown could still favor DC in the LONG term. It is absolutely now a much much greater chance that the Commanders move back INTO DC now because of all this. Short term however this will sting big time for Chinatown/Downtown business, not to mention we'll see what happens with crime either sustaining where it is now, or getting better, or worse.
Chinatown is in the center of town, it will fill back in nicely if they ever tear down the Arena, it will just be a new mega development plopped down there that will increase density. RFK is a rotting site of an old stadium and asphalt currently, that would be of much grandeur scale redevelopment than what potentially is going to go up at Potomac Yard.
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He doesn't own the ground below it. DC owns the ground. Really the building needs to be town down so a City Center type development can be built. Actually, something like the Stacks under construction in Buzzard Point would do wonders for Downtown DC. The NOMA/Union Market area is much busier 24/7 than Chinatown because of the population density. Putting 2,000 units and a grocery store there would completely transform that area.
I'd rather see another form of entertainment venue placed there mixed in with a residential/retail development if it comes to pass and they would move on and tear down the Arena. For now Leonsis and Monumental claim they want a two pronged arena affect ala other mega cities like NYC or LA with Barclays in BK and MSG, and other entertainment venues in Jersey and Long Island. These are his words not mine. DC of course is not the size of NYC or LA so this remains to be seen if we could sustain the massive amount of large scale venues, not too mention if a 65-70k seat NFL stadium is on the way to DC proper.
If a team was coming to NOVA, which I think is big enough now to deserve one, I would have rather seen a separate franchise open up and have a stadium way out past Reston/Dulles on the Silver Line. Then keep the main team in the Beltway core.
The other option I think which would make even more sense for Leonsis, is just move the Caps to a new arena in Alexandria if that's where Monumental and VA wants to put it, but keep the Wizards in DC at Capital One. Then you get your secondary arena aspect, plus he wants to connect with Va Tech and build up his Monumental Sports headquarters and studios. He can't do that in Chinatown, there's not enough space.
Last edited by the resident09; 12-13-2023 at 01:40 PM..
Chasing the NFL is not a "stupid" move. That's asinine. If the end all be all is that DC gains a new RFK site domed stadium for year round use with a mixed use development surrounding it, while losing the Caps/Wiz and retaining all the other sports teams that are in the city proper. That's not a huge long term problem at all, and with proper redevelopment of Capital One Arena/Chinatown could still favor DC in the LONG term. It is absolutely now a much much greater chance that the Commanders move back INTO DC now because of all this. Short term however this will sting big time for Chinatown/Downtown business, not to mention we'll see what happens with crime either sustaining where it is now, or getting better, or worse.
Chinatown is in the center of town, it will fill back in nicely if they ever tear down the Arena, it will just be a new mega development plopped down there that will increase density. RFK is a rotting site of an old stadium and asphalt currently, that would be of much grandeur scale redevelopment than what potentially is going to go up at Potomac Yard.
NFL stadiums aren't great for activating a neighborhood. How often would a Dome stadium get used? Maybe 30 times a year compared to 100 times a year for just pro basketball/hockey across multiple nights a week. Sure DC could host the Superbowl or Final Four once every 15 years. But that isn't going to sustain a commercial area. Also, I'm not really sure how this helps DC get the Commanders?
I'm pretty skeptical of the 2 arena concept. NYC has two NBA teams to justify two arenas. Georgetown and the Mystics don't draw sufficient crowds to cover the full operating costs. It could still have concerts. But we already have multiple concert venues and the new arena would be adding even more competition.
Again, I'm not really sure what development DC can add here to generate the same level of activity. The site is fairly small. Smaller than City Center or the Stacks. Maybe they could squeeze 1,000 units in there. But that would represent a big loss in activity from the 20k that come in for events. Plus, there are so many other areas of Downtown DC that are begging for redevelopment without all the disorder of 7th and H. Not to mention any development is over a decade away with several years of a festering dead zone.
This should be viewed as an opporunity to "upscale" the area. Maybe you'll get better dining and retail instead of stuff like Fuddruckers and Chipotle that's there to cater to the suburban crowd.
A key piece of his speech: “Our moving here, if all of this goes as planned,”. This still feels like a high stakes negotiating tactic.
Downtown DC and really much of the urban core is already taking on too much water between telework, declining retail and rising crime. The District can't afford another problem right now. At this point, Ted Leonis can basically write the terms of the deal to keep the teams in DC.
We're not in the 2010s anymore where DC was rising and yuppies were pouring into the city as fast as developers could throw up apartment buildings. The District faces it's most significant challenges since the 90s.
A key piece of his speech: “Our moving here, if all of this goes as planned,”. This still feels like a high stakes negotiating tactic.
Downtown DC and really much of the urban core is already taking on too much water between telework, declining retail and rising crime. The District can't afford another problem right now. At this point, Ted Leonis can basically write the terms of the deal to keep the teams in DC.
We're not in the 2010s anymore where DC was rising and yuppies were pouring into the city as fast as developers could throw up apartment buildings. The District faces it's most significant challenges since the 90s.
I think that refers to another side of the whole project. The whole thing has to go through an approval and review process in Alexandria and Virginia, and you don't want to create the impression that you take these proceedings for granted. There's going to be neighborhood 'dialog' and mitigation on traffic impacts etc. This is just typical for any major infrastructure undertaking.
Obviously any major obstacle put in place of the project in Alexandria gets alternative options back in the game. I suspect that Leonsis is also trying to use that bit of leverage to ensure full commitment on the VA side to get the project past those hurdles.
If you look at the timing and comms strategy of all of this, it seems pretty obvious that Leonsis and his org have been in detailed planning work with the VA people for months now. I don't think that happens without a memorandum of understanding both sides sign off on. That's not a negotiating tactic anymore because you'd burn all your bridges in VA for good (and make yourself look like an unsteady and unreliable partner for all your customers and vendors) if you pull that on them.
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Originally Posted by jpdivola
A key piece of his speech: “Our moving here, if all of this goes as planned,”. This still feels like a high stakes negotiating tactic.
Downtown DC and really much of the urban core is already taking on too much water between telework, declining retail and rising crime. The District can't afford another problem right now. At this point, Ted Leonis can basically write the terms of the deal to keep the teams in DC.
We're not in the 2010s anymore where DC was rising and yuppies were pouring into the city as fast as developers could throw up apartment buildings. The District faces it's most significant challenges since the 90s.
You sound out of touch. DC this past year, the year before, and all the years going back as far as I can count has been in constant development mode. The city has ranked top 3/5 in cranes rising going back who knows how long before the pandemic still today. Population has increased since the pandemic. Yes there is too much vacant office space, as is in most major downtowns in the country. The Commanders are very likely coming INTO the city if this comes to pass. The city as a whole is not on some downward trajectory, Navy Yard, Buzzard Point, Wharf, Union Market each are building loads of housing trying to find places for people to live.
Downtown DC yes has to get this figured out. That is where the overall blow will be felt most if losing both teams to VA. Crime has risen, but that is cyclical. This is so far from the 90's regarding crime that I don't think you realize how bad the city actually was then. There are no more than 5 equivalent or greater urban centers with multi-modal transit in the United States than Downtown Washington DC. Yes these are all new current challenges that the city and leadership will have to handle, but I'd have full confidence if there's a need to replace the Arena with something else, that it could exceed expectations in what could placed there. But again the ownership is stating that he still wants to commit to DC proper and have both arenas open.
The site at Potomac Yard has 70 acres and Monumental wants a campus style venue. This is all Leonsis trying to grow his brand physically and seeing the business appreciate.
It may very well be. But I guess I'm holding out (maybe false) hope that a deal can be reached to keep them in the District. I look to the Bears stadium search in Chicago. There have been announcements that they are moving to the burbs to the point that it looked like a done deal and then in recent weeks there has been talk again of a new downtown stadium. So I hope this isn't the end, but merely another stage in the process.
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8,128 posts, read 7,547,924 times
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Originally Posted by jpdivola
It may very well be. But I guess I'm holding out (maybe false) hope that a deal can be reached to keep them in the District. I look to the Bears stadium search in Chicago. There have been announcements that they are moving to the burbs to the point that it looked like a done deal and then in recent weeks there has been talk again of a new downtown stadium. So I hope this isn't the end, but merely another stage in the process.
That sounds good but keep in mind DC has to pony up the $500 million to keep Caps/Wiz, already approved more funds to be opened up for upgrades at Nats Park. Audi Field is now looking to expand and add seats and may need more funds from the District. Not to mention the Commanders I'd say once things move through Congress are probably a 90% chance of moving to RFK site, and there's a new Sports & Entertainment complex in Southeast near St. Elizabeth's where the Mystics play at now. DC would be over loaded with sports and entertainment venues within such a small radius, and I don't know if the city council will be able to approve funds to handle all of that.
That sounds good but keep in mind DC has to pony up the $500 million to keep Caps/Wiz, already approved more funds to be opened up for upgrades at Nats Park. Audi Field is now looking to expand and add seats and may need more funds from the District. Not to mention the Commanders I'd say once things move through Congress are probably a 90% chance of moving to RFK site, and there's a new Sports & Entertainment complex in Southeast near St. Elizabeth's where the Mystics play at now. DC would be over loaded with sports and entertainment venues within such a small radius, and I don't know if the city council will be able to approve funds to handle all of that.
Yeah, the District needs to prioritize and be strategic about tax breaks/ subsidies. That's why I think the NFL stadium is a waste of money. It will rarely get used and likely require lots of parking. Tailgating is a big part of the NFL culture. https://www.commanders.com/stadium/tailgating. I would rather see some sort of amphitheater like the Pritzker Pavilion in Chicago which would be far cheaper and more useful to DC residents . The sports and entertainment complex is built, but it's already lossing it's anchor tenet. If Audi Field wants to expand, that's a discussion worth having. But they only play 17 games versus 82 games for a basketball/hockey arena.
Last edited by jpdivola; 12-13-2023 at 08:54 PM..
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