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While I understand it given the crime and the deal from Virginia, I'm really sad for DC that this is happening.
Yeah, it maybe that Ted Leonsis just wanted out of the dumpster fire that is Gallery Place and there is nothing the District could have done to keep them. If this comes to pass DC will be left with a zombie arena in the heart of a struggling area. There is talk of reinventing it as concert venues. But, not for an extra 80-100 nights a year to make up for the loss of pro sports. It could be knocked down and redeveloped as housing. But that's 10 to 15 years away. Plus, any sort of mixed use redevelopment would represent a massive reduction in activity (20k fans for 1.5k residents). The uncertainty will be catastrophic for the area for the foreseeable future. Why would anyone want to invest in a new business/restaurant there when there is so much uncertainty about the neighborhood.
Realistically the best hope at this point maybe Alexandria NIMBYs trying to scuttle the deal. A move to NoVa would be bad for the teams (divisive and hard to get to)and be massive blow for an already struggling DC. Unfortunately DCs future success is not assured. The 60s-90s showed the District dosent have to magically thrive just because it's the Capital.
1) the announcement was for a non binding agreement. These often fall apart. Ted L can walk away at any time. A WaPo article on the move noted there was a press conference with them Gov Wilder in the early 90s to announce a Potomac Yard stadium.
"There was the time in 1992, after all, when the then-Washington Redskins appeared with Virginia Gov. L. Douglas Wilder (D) to announce a deal to move from RFK Stadium to Potomac Yard. That never happened — history that the two leaders are banking on repeating itself." https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...irginia-arena/
"Robert Kraft, the Patriots’ owner, eventually signed the deal with Hartford—and it was considered perhaps the best deal a state had ever given a sports team. There was a press conference and a rally and Connecticut officials dreamed up big, elaborate plans. And then, three months later, the dream died."
2) the transportation aspects of a Potomac Yard location wold be a cluster f. Sure there is a Metro station. But, it's outside the core of a hub and spoke system. This basically doubles transit times from DC/MD. Even for Orange/Silver this will take longer with the transfer. At rush hour it's 39 min from East Falls Church to Potomac Yard metro vs 20 min to Metro Center. It's also not convenient for the (admittedly diminished) downtown office crowd. No more easy Uber/walk from the office to catch a Tuesday night game. That means a lot more people will be driving to the game. And unlike DC with its grid and multiple major boulevards, pretty much all the traffic will have to flow into the already congested Route 1.
If you are going to do a suburban arena, frankly right next to the Beltway and metro in Tysons makes a lot more sense. 3) this was largely sprung on the Alexandria community with very little community input. I hate most NIMBYISM but hopefully the Del Ray community can tie this down with protests and lawsuits over environment and traffic impact studies.
I go back and forth, but still say there is a significant chance this is just a negotiation tactic and the move to NoVa doesn't go through. They are only $100 million apart. Over 20 or 30 years that's not a huge amount.
It may very well be. But I guess I'm holding out (maybe false) hope that a deal can be reached to keep them in the District. I look to the Bears stadium search in Chicago. There have been announcements that they are moving to the burbs to the point that it looked like a done deal and then in recent weeks there has been talk again of a new downtown stadium. So I hope this isn't the end, but merely another stage in the process.
I don't recall the Bears making any announcements that they were officially leaving Soldier Field. And I certainly don't recall any announcements being made at a press conference with elected officials in attendance. You may have heard rumors and innuendo but I don't think the Bears at any point publicly committed to moving.
Your best hope is that fiscal conservatives in the Virginia legislature scuttle the project. That's probably the most realistic thing that could happen to prevent the move.
I don't recall the Bears making any announcements that they were officially leaving Soldier Field. And I certainly don't recall any announcements being made at a press conference with elected officials in attendance. You may have heard rumors and innuendo but I don't think the Bears at any point publicly committed to moving.
Your best hope is that fiscal conservatives in the Virginia legislature scuttle the project. That's probably the most realistic thing that could happen to prevent the move.
This admittedly has gone further than the Bears. But does still seem like the plan to bring the NFL to Potomac Yards. There was a press conference with the governor and team owner and then opposition from the local community killed the deal. Here's hoping history repeats itself.
This admittedly has gone further than the Bears. But does still seem like the plan to bring the NFL to Potomac Yards. There was a press conference with the governor and team owner and then opposition from the local community killed the deal. Here's hoping history repeats itself.
It wasn't really local opposition that killed the deal. Wilder was clear in the video that a congressman killed the deal. Little people get run over all the time in the name of economic development (i.e., the Barclays Center).
Also, JKC agreed to fund construction of the stadium with his own money. Monumental is going to want taxpayers to pick up the tab. That's why I said fiscal conservatives in the Virginia legislature are probably the best friend you have right now. I can't imagine that the folks in Blacksburg, Hampton Roads or Richmond want to pay for an arena in N. Virginia.
The Capital One arena is actually part of the problem in Downtown DC if we're being honest. Does it provide tons of vibrancy and activity? Absolutely! But, it also acts like a crutch for the Gallery Place neighborhood creating artificial vibrancy based around games and events. Look around DC at all the neighborhoods that in 2023 are pretty busy without an arena.
Navy Yard (even outside of baseball season)
Union Market
NOMA
Mt. Vernon Triangle
Logan Circle
Columbia Heights
U Street/Shaw
Adams Morgan
Georgetown
The Wharf/Waterfront Station
Dupont Circle
None of those neighborhoods have an arena and they have restaurants and vibrancy. Now, look at the vibrancy of downtown areas around the country.
Manhattan
Downtown Boston
Center City Philadelphia
Downtown San Francisco
Downtown Chicago
Downtown Seattle
None of these cities rely on a downtown arena to provide vibrancy. They're busy because people actually live in their downtown areas. The DC neighborhoods I mentioned above are also busy because people actually live in those neighborhoods. Downtown DC needs to be forced to change. This may actually be the push it needs for office buildings to drop in value so much that they have no choice but to either be demolished and rebuilt as residential or converted from office to residential.
I think we should build a new arena at the RFK site and build a city around it on the water.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 12-14-2023 at 01:25 PM..
Doug Wilder/Jack Kent Cooke made a miscalculation by not engaging Alexandria Mayor Patricia Ticer from the outset Ticer then led the opposition that forced Jack to Maryland Let’s also remember if Marion Barry wasn’t arrested Commanders would have remained in DC
The Capital One arena is actually part of the problem in Downtown DC if we're being honest. Does it provide tons of vibrancy and activity? Absolutely! But, it also acts like a crutch for the Gallery Place neighborhood creating artificial vibrancy based around games and events. Look around DC at all the neighborhoods that in 2023 are pretty busy without an arena.
Navy Yard (even outside of baseball season)
Union Market
NOMA
Mt. Vernon Triangle
Logan Circle
Columbia Heights
U Street/Shaw
Adams Morgan
Georgetown
The Wharf/Waterfront Station
Dupont Circle
None of those neighborhoods have an arena and they have restaurants and vibrancy. Now, look at the vibrancy of downtown areas around the country.
Manhattan
Downtown Boston
Center City Philadelphia
Downtown San Francisco
Downtown Chicago
Downtown Seattle
None of these cities rely on a downtown arena to provide vibrancy. They're busy because people actually live in their downtown areas. The DC neighborhoods I mentioned above are also busy because people actually live in those neighborhoods. Downtown DC needs to be forced to change. This may actually be the push it needs for office buildings to drop in value so much that they have no choice but to either be demolished and rebuilt as residential or converted from office to residential.
I think we should build a new arena at the RFK site and build a city around it on the water.
The Capital One arena is actually part of the problem in Downtown DC if we're being honest. Does it provide tons of vibrancy and activity? Absolutely! But, it also acts like a crutch for the Gallery Place neighborhood creating artificial vibrancy based around games and events. Look around DC at all the neighborhoods that in 2023 are pretty busy without an arena.
Navy Yard (even outside of baseball season)
Union Market
NOMA
Mt. Vernon Triangle
Logan Circle
Columbia Heights
U Street/Shaw
Adams Morgan
Georgetown
The Wharf/Waterfront Station
Dupont Circle
None of those neighborhoods have an arena and they have restaurants and vibrancy. Now, look at the vibrancy of downtown areas around the country.
Manhattan
Downtown Boston
Center City Philadelphia
Downtown San Francisco
Downtown Chicago
Downtown Seattle
None of these cities rely on a downtown arena to provide vibrancy. They're busy because people actually live in their downtown areas. The DC neighborhoods I mentioned above are also busy because people actually live in those neighborhoods. Downtown DC needs to be forced to change. This may actually be the push it needs for office buildings to drop in value so much that they have no choice but to either be demolished and rebuilt as residential or converted from office to residential.
I think we should build a new arena at the RFK site and build a city around it on the water.
I agree DC needs a lot more housing in the downtown core. IMO, that was the biggest missed opportunity of the boom years. DC went a decade without a single new housing unit being added in the downtown. But, there are already tons of accent office buildings to convert over. Most vibrant areas are vibrant not because of the residential population, but because they are regional attractions that draw people from the rest of the region. The foot traffic at the Wharf is probably 70% people that don't live in SW, Adams Morgan is a regional nightlife area, Georgetown a regional/tourist shopping area, Union Market draws people from all over.
The question is what is the highest and best use of the small 3/4 acre sight that the arena sits on?
1) A ten year dead zone where eventually there maybe 1000-1500 new residents
2) A zombie arena that host 20 thinly attended Mystics (sorry but likely true) games and maybe 25 concerts a year.
3) An arena that hosts 20k people attending attending 80-100 pro games a year plus maybe 15 concerts a year.
Boston and NYC have downtown arenas that anchor vibrant areas, Philly wants one. SF, Chicago and Seattle have downtown adjacent arenas. And people in Chicago complain about the arena location. So arenas don't in and of themselves make a great downtown. But they can add a key urban ammenity.
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