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For someone who lives in a real subtropical region(Grand Strand), this basically undermines the definition of subtropical; it becomes meaningless. Humidity is a normal part of any livable place, even places like Iceland, Ireland, and Minneapolis have humidity. Obviously that doesn't make any of those places subtropical, now does it? It simply means they are not arid. Also, snow isn't as important as one is led to believe, because some continental climates like Manchuria/Korea are not known for snowy winters but still very much continental climates. Zone 8 in the US is a very good edge for the subtropics, basically anything south of zone 8a in the US is basically subtropical. Zone 7 comes very close, with 3 months left off the classification for being too cold, to be classified as more "warm temperate" or "mesothermal". However, neither apply to Boston imo due to the cold highs, which gives the vibes of a milder continential climate[/i] than the prior terms listed.
Where I currently am is almost tropical, it is borderline this is actually not a good subtropical. I was raised in USDA 7b and 8a that is solid subtropical(in the US state of Alabama), southern of zone 8 you it gets more tropicalized. I don’t think hardiness zone defines that because or else Boston is more subtropical than Lexington KY being 7a while Lexington 6b. Nope Lexington is definitely more subtropical. warm temperate= subtropical, mesothermal= the 9 temperates of Köppen subtropical is the hot summer ones(warm temperate). Microthermal = continental which Köppen has 12 types 3 of them being exclusive to parts of Siberia like Sakha(Dfa, Dwd, and Dsd). In US DC is 8a so more subtropical than Huntsville, AL 7b? Don’t think so. If you see the 12 continental’s real definition Boston is no match for them, when comparing to the Siberia exclusive ones or other colder continentals then the continentals of US are mild continentals. If you see the base of how classification works Boston is an early subtropical just out of a continental, subtropical in the classification is just temperate with hot summers which is warm temperate. In classification, tropical climates border temperate climates and temperate continental or polar(all of them can border an semi arid and semirids arid), the temperate ones of hot summers are what warm temperate is and warm temperate under classification= subtropical. That’s what my name stands for I guess?
Start of subtropical ....around Virginia Beach....zone 8
North of Norfolk/Virgina Beach ...not subtropical....
for example: Ocean City, MD has to bring in palm trees from Florida
every spring to give hotel and beach areas a subtropical "look"
then they die ...then buy more next spring from Florida....rinse and repeat,
does make the area look good for their peak summer season.
Oh you mean the pre-tropical subtropical part, because there is the pre-continental part which is the part that is supposed to border continental climates specially hot summer continentals. That is the start of deep subtropical I guess but I am sure that my place in north AL is subtropical and is 7b. That zone 8 point is useless, is Edinburg Scotland subtropical, don’t think so. Also what about Rostov-On-Don it made it to 8a, is averages exactly -3°C in coldest month, so it is as humid subtropical as hot summer humid continental using the -3°C isotherm so I think it’s pointless because even Boston is warmer than Rostov-On-Don in winter averages and has similar summers. The zone 8 thing is useless, hardiness zone will not define how the climate is classified by much.
Nah Oceanic City , MD is 7b so people are wasting their time. In 7b you can plant without protection various palms. Sabal palmetto hardiness point is 7b, same for European fan tree, same for Sago palm(which is a cycad), Pindo palm, and Blue Mediterranean Fan Palm. 7a you can grow windmills already, in 7b they should do amazing they do amazing where I am originally from which is in zone 7b. Needle palms hardy to zone 5, Sabal minor hardy to zone 6, saw palmetto hardy to 6b and mazari palm hardy to 6b also. How many palms can be grow in Ocean City MD then? At least 10 types. DC is borderline 7b/8a we can do miracles there! If a place is 8a or above, in something you guys are right it becomes a paradise of all plants that can be grown, though I would not say subtropical start or ends there. I can assure you Ocean City would do better with palms than my town in north AL, some hardiness zone with beach air. What is wrong with these people is that they are planting the wrong palms. For example if we brought a Mexican Fan tree hardy to zone 8 to Ocean City, MD without protection it would die in the coldest winter days, or if you bring a Bismarck palm hardy to the neighboring zone it would get damaged too. The problem is that they are bringing zone 8 and zone 9 palms to a 7b place, if they did the 7b and below they would succeed. And how ridiculous they bring them from Florida which from the 27th Parallel or below it is practically tropical climates, why not the ones of SC or NC or even better Virginia Beach which is similar no wonder why their palms die!
If I brought a palm from here, a Royal plant for example or a coconut palm(northern limit in US starts in my area) hardy to zone 10 to Atlanta 8a, they will surely die! Or a Date Palm hardy to 8b to Atlanta 8a it would likely be damaged. Unless they are bringing needle palms, Sabal minor, saw palmetto, Sabal palmetto, or plants as hardy as them from FL to MD, there will surely be problems.
Actually, Canberra is likely Cfa - there hasn't been a recording station in the city since 1988, and the Airport (9km out of town), just squeaks in with a warmest month of 22.1C.
That is great news! Then ok Canberra subtropical not bad, but it is almost oceanic like it is as subtropical as oceanic I would say. Boston on the other hand is more firmly in Cfa with warmest month but it also not far from oceanic and unlike any place of Australia or even the entire Southern Hemisphere it almost borders the continentals Dfa and Dfb.
The only continental places I know in SH are, microclimates in Charlotte Pass area of Dfc but Charlotte Pass is technically Cfc under -3°C isotherm but almost Dfc and Köppen AUS map shows a few very small packs of Dfc, same happen in NZ maps in the mountains there is some Dfc but also with the Cfc. And in many cases the Cfc reaches ET before being close Dfc. But that is pretty much all the continental in SH, also probably some small microclimates wether in continental or arid forms could be in Andes in South America. That is all continental of the SH.
Here is what I regard as perfect subtropical: Auburn, AL the typical latitude for a Cfa(humid-subtropical) climate usually around 25-40°N/S(there is various exceptions), 32.5°N/S would be middle of it, Auburn is 32.6°N! With hardiness zone 8, it is good enough for many cold-hardy palms, Sabal Palmetto can be grown well! Also at hardiness zone 8 is also where many citrus can start to be grown! With an average of 45.5°F(7.5°C) coldest month, exactly middle of -3°C(26.6°F) to border continental and 18°C(64.4°F) to border tropical, Auburn makes it to the perfect middle of temperate (C) average, and with its hot humid summers with average of 81°F warmest month it is a perfect example of a humid-subtropical climate of North America, crazy how exact it is!
Sydney is subtropical, whoever said not doesn’t know really how the system works. Winters are in the range obviously and it has the summer heat not to be oceanic but subtropical. Toronto is certainly Dfa for sure but it shows not to be far from Cfa. Chicago under the -3°C isotherm is Dfa but bordering Cfa due to lake moderation it is 0.4°F short of -3°C(it averages 26.2°F coldest month 26.6°F is exactly -3°C). I checked the average of coldest month of this year of both and thankfully they still made it Dfa, some years acted Cfa but thankfully this year won’t because January averaged below -3°C in both. Dfa is hot-summer humid continental meaning that in summer they should be hot and humid like subtropical but have severe cold winters which are average below -3°C coldest month. Hot and humid summers is not everything, some people are confused here.
Toronto is natively Dfb and is identical to Montreal in the summer.
Montreal averages 21°C in warmest month it’s Dfb, while Toronto averages 22.5°C so Dfa. Yeah summers are similar but one is Dfb while the other Dfb. Winters are not similar though, Toronto is not far from Cfa average coldest month in Toronto is -3.5°C, -3°C is for Cfa, Montreal is a deep continental average -9.7°C in coldest month even colder than Minneapolis.
Here is what I regard as perfect subtropical: Auburn, AL the typical latitude for a Cfa(humid-subtropical) climate usually around 25-40°N/S(there is various exceptions), 32.5°N/S would be middle of it, Auburn is 32.6°N! With hardiness zone 8, it is good enough for many cold-hardy palms, Sabal Palmetto can be grown well! Also at hardiness zone 8 is also where many citrus can start to be grown! With an average of 45.5°F(7.5°C) coldest month, exactly middle of -3°C(26.6°F) to border continental and 18°C(64.4°F) to border tropical, Auburn makes it to the perfect middle of temperate (C) average, and with its hot humid summers with average of 81°F warmest month it is a perfect example of a humid-subtropical climate of North America, crazy how exact it is!
Montreal averages 21°C in warmest month it’s Dfb, while Toronto averages 22.5°C so Dfa. Yeah summers are similar but one is Dfb while the other Dfb. Winters are not similar though, Toronto is not far from Cfa average coldest month in Toronto is -3.5°C, -3°C is for Cfa, Montreal is a deep continental average -9.7°C in coldest month even colder than Minneapolis.
You're comparing downtown Toronto to Montreal airport.
And you are the same as Subtropical-is-temperate. I'm not interested in further discussions with the likes of you.
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. In 7b you can plant without protection various palms. Sabal palmetto hardiness point is 7b, same for European fan tree, same for Sago palm(which is a cycad), Pindo palm, and Blue Mediterranean Fan Palm. 7a you can grow windmills already, in 7b they should do amazing they do amazing where I am originally from which is in zone 7b. Needle palms hardy to zone 5, Sabal minor hardy to zone 6, saw palmetto hardy to 6b and mazari palm hardy to 6b also. How many palms can be grow in Ocean City MD then? At least 10 types. DC is borderline 7b/8a we can do miracles there! If a place is 8a or above, in something you guys are right it becomes a paradise of all plants that can be grown, though I would not say subtropical start or ends there. I can assure you Ocean City would do better with palms than my town in north AL, some hardiness zone with beach air. What is wrong with these people is that they are planting the wrong palms. For example if we brought a Mexican Fan tree hardy to zone 8 to Ocean City, MD without protection it would die in the coldest winter days, or if you bring a Bismarck palm hardy to the neighboring zone it would get damaged too. The problem is that they are bringing zone 8 and zone 9 palms to a 7b place, if they did the 7b and below they would succeed. And how ridiculous they bring them from Florida which from the 27th Parallel or below it is practically tropical climates, why not the ones of SC or NC or even better Virginia Beach which is similar no wonder why their palms die!