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I used to think about this but now I believe that, even if you leave an employer under undesirable circumstances, they cannot tell a potential employer that 'he was fired (or quit) after a shouting match with the boss.' I believe all they can talk about is your actual work performance. But I could be wrong.
Define "cannot".
Most employers won't do anything but confirm dates of employment. That's it. It's suicide to say anything that could possibly be construed as negative... there's no upside to them trying to torpedo someone, and plenty of downside in the form of lawsuits which, even if completely meritless, must be defended at cost. Why?
But, in the "burning bridges" category, we aren't talking about that... we're talking about, "Hey, Joe, it's Bill. How are you? Long time, no see. Hey, I see that Fred Smith is applying, and he used to work over there. What's he like?" If Fred burned a bridge, Joe is gonna tell everything, and Fred is going to get a "We regret to inform you..." form letter. If he didn't, though, Joe might say, "Well, he didn't really work out over here, but he had some good qualities and I think you might be able to use him, give him a shot!"
In this day and age people dont have to burn bridges, they just leave an anonymous comment on Glassdoor. If a companys glassdoor rating slides big time, it will significantly affect their ability to hire. Reputation goes both ways.
But, in the "burning bridges" category, we aren't talking about that... we're talking about, "Hey, Joe, it's Bill. How are you? Long time, no see. Hey, I see that Fred Smith is applying, and he used to work over there. What's he like?" If Fred burned a bridge, Joe is gonna tell everything, and Fred is going to get a "We regret to inform you..." form letter. If he didn't, though, Joe might say, "Well, he didn't really work out over here, but he had some good qualities and I think you might be able to use him, give him a shot!"
Exactly. Or even internally - "Hey, we have this resume - looks like one of your old colleagues from WidgetCo is applying for the open position on the Gadget QA team. Worth looking into?" If it's your resume, you want the answer to be "Hell yes, grab him if you can. Heckuva guy." Not the amusing anecdote about how you put in your resignation letter, dropped trou and invited the boss to kiss your rearside. (Yes, that happened.)
So let me get this straight... There's a toxic employer/workplace situation and you're the bad guy because you weren't all polite to toxic people when you left? As if that's going to change their minds and like you and put in a good word for you.
This never burn bridges is an "old saying" that came from an era where people were less mobile and lived and worked in small towns with few opportunities.
So let me get this straight... There's a toxic employer/workplace situation and you're the bad guy because you weren't all polite to toxic people when you left? As if that's going to change their minds and like you and put in a good word for you.
This never burn bridges is an "old saying" that came from an era where people were less mobile and lived and worked in small towns with few opportunities.
So let me get this straight... There's a toxic employer/workplace situation and you're the bad guy because you weren't all polite to toxic people when you left? As if that's going to change their minds and like you and put in a good word for you.
This never burn bridges is an "old saying" that came from an era where people were less mobile and lived and worked in small towns with few opportunities.
Yes, I burnt several bridges from very hostile workplaces. Even if I didn't burn bridges they’d still trash me regardless.
I used to think about this but now I believe that, even if you leave an employer under undesirable circumstances, they cannot tell a potential employer that 'he was fired (or quit) after a shouting match with the boss.' I believe all they can talk about is your actual work performance. But I could be wrong.
You are wrong. A reference can provide any information that is factually accurate. So if you got into a shouting match with the boss, that factual information can be relayed.
What advantage do you gain from burning bridges, outside of the temporary ego boost in getting to "tell them off", which never helps you in the long run?
The OP gave two examples where people left under volatile circumstances and those who left kept on rolling with their careers. So, it doesn't ALWAYS come back to bit you.
So, in things like this never say never.
I assume the worry is that some day you may be desperate and need a job with that company. Or need a reference from them. Or you may find other people in the business jumped ship and are now working for your company or you might need to network with them, and if they remember you as a jerk, it's probably not going to go over well.
And, people tend to know other people, especially in some industries where there's a lot of networking or people moving around between locations. They may even know people in other regions or countries. In some fields, it's common for someone who's hiring someone new, or having that new person come into their office, to call someone from another office or company who may know them or know of them and say "Hey, what do you know about Bob Smith?"
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Originally Posted by Florida2014
As long as your colleague put in her two weeks notice, and quit her position in good standing, it shouldn't matter if she didn't get along with her manager. You simply do not list the manager as a reference.
You don't always have a choice. I can't imagine telling a prospective employer that no, they can't call one of my former supervisors. And I certainly can't refuse to say who it was, or not list the job at all and have to explain a big gap in my employment history (which would require either lying about what I was doing during that time, or admitting I made a lie of omission in my application...plus would mean I would miss out on listing pertinent experience that would be relevant to why I should be hired). There would be no good reason for me to say to not contact them (unless the person was dead, in a coma or had dementia, or moved to the jungles of darkest Peru and couldn't be contacted), or to not want to list the job at all, so they'd know it was bad.
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Originally Posted by Riley.
I used to think about this but now I believe that, even if you leave an employer under undesirable circumstances, they cannot tell a potential employer that 'he was fired (or quit) after a shouting match with the boss.' I believe all they can talk about is your actual work performance. But I could be wrong.
For most, that's all they'll do for legal reasons. Not all employers or supervisors take that tack, especially if they're not very savvy.
And, just because someone is confirming dates of employment, I'm sure things like tone of voice can tell volumes. If they also go into actual work performance, well, that can open the floodgates. Whether you're "a good fit" for the company or get along with other employees politely and in a civil manner is absolutely part of your work performance.
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Originally Posted by MoNative34
So let me get this straight... There's a toxic employer/workplace situation and you're the bad guy because you weren't all polite to toxic people when you left? As if that's going to change their minds and like you and put in a good word for you.
This never burn bridges is an "old saying" that came from an era where people were less mobile and lived and worked in small towns with few opportunities.
Some people will talk badly about you regardless. Nothing you can do about that. But the way to solve a toxic-employer situation is to do just what you did-- leave. (Same thing you do with any toxic person in your life.) Making a scene is not going to change their behavior. It might make you feel good, but that's it. And meanwhile, when someone else calls them for a reference, all that person is going to get is one side of the story; you don't get a chance. Why even try to make your odds worse? You don't know what someone will say about you; maybe that person wouldn't have said anything negative about you *until* you created drama. Or maybe the prospective employer would be willing to take what the former employer said with a grain of salt... until they found out you're a volatile drama queen.
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Originally Posted by selhars
The OP gave two examples where people left under volatile circumstances and those who left kept on rolling with their careers. So, it doesn't ALWAYS come back to bit you.
So, in things like this never say never.
If you feel like taking risks, you're free to do it. No one said you can't. But, you could equally say that just because two people, in the entire world, came out okay after something like this, that you can't generalize that everyone, in every industry, everywhere, will be able to. So let's split the difference and say no one is saying YOU MAY NOT EVER BURN BRIDGES IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL WITH DEATH PENALTY, but "Hey, there are some reasons we advise you that it's probably a really bad idea." Which is all anyone has ever been saying here.
So let me get this straight... There's a toxic employer/workplace situation and you're the bad guy because you weren't all polite to toxic people when you left?
Not bad. You're completely morally justified. It's still not smart.
Do the cost/benefit: Telling the boss off, once and for all, is sure to feel good for a few days. The possibility of it having an impact is small, but it's going to be a negative impact, and the risk is around for years. Blowing smoke up the boss' rear to leave on good terms feels pretty good, too. The possibility of it having an impact is small, but it's going to be a positive impact, and it, too, will remain latent for years.
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As if that's going to change their minds and like you and put in a good word for you.
You'd be surprised at how many toxic workplaces have no idea that they're toxic. A lot of horrid employers think they're good guys running a great shop - tough, but fair - and that people are just unmanageable these days. If you're leaving, tell them thanks for the opportunity, how what you learned propelled your career, yadda yadda. At that point, you owe them nothing - certainly not the truth - so feed them what line benefits you going forward.
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This never burn bridges is an "old saying" that came from an era where people were less mobile and lived and worked in small towns with few opportunities.
Depends on your field. I work in Los Angeles and I encounter old colleagues all the damn time. Reputations are worth it. Jobs come from networking.
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